Shia and Sunni, A Ludicrously Short Primer

Even now, many people who hear these terms daily on the news are confused about what the real differences are between Sunni and Shia Muslims, so I, having been brought up in a very devout Shia household in Pakistan, thought I would explain these things, at least in rough terms. Here goes:

It all started hours after Mohammad's death: while his son-in-law (and first cousin) Ali was attending to Mohammad's burial, others were holding a little election to see who should succeed Mohammad as the chief of what was by now an Islamic state. (Remember that by the end of his life, Mohammad was not only a religious leader, but the head-of-state of a significant polity.) The person soon elected to the position of caliph, or head-of-state, was an old companion of the prophet's named Abu Bakr. This was a controversial choice, as many felt that Mohammad had clearly indicated Ali as his successor, and after Abu Bakr took power, these people had no choice but to say that while he may have become the temporal leader of the young Islamic state, they did not recognize him as their divinely guided religious leader. Instead, Ali remained their spiritual leader, and these were the ones who would eventually come to be known as the Shia. The ones who elected Abu Bakr would come to be known as Sunni.

This is the Shia/Sunni split which endures to this day, based on this early disagreement. Below I will say a little more about the Shia.

So early on in Islam, there was a split between political power and religious leadership, and to make a long story admittedly far too short, this soon came to a head within a generation when the grandson of one of the greatest of Mohammad's enemies (Abu Sufian) from his early days in Mecca, Yazid, took power in the still nascent Islamic government. Yazid was really something like a cross between Nero and Hitler and Stalin; just bad, bad in every way: a decadent, repressive dictator (and one who flouted all Islamic injunctions), for whom it became very important to obtain the public allegiance of Husain, the pious and respected son of Ali (and so, grandson of Mohammad). And this Husain refused, on principle.

Yazid said he would kill Husain. Husain said that was okay. Yazid said he would kill all of Husain's family. Husain said he could not compromise his principles, no matter what the price. Yazid's army of tens of thousands then surrounded Husain and a small band of his family, friends and followers at a place called Kerbala (in present day Iraq), and cut off their water on the 7th of the Islamic month of Moharram. For three days, Husain and his family had no water. At dawn on the third day, the 10th of Moharram, Husain told all in his party that they were sure to be killed and whoever wanted to leave was free to do so. No one left. In fact, several heroic souls left Yazid's camp to come and join the group that was certain to be slaughtered.

On the 10th of Moharram, a day now known throughout the Islamic world as Ashura, the members of Husain's parched party came out one by one to do battle, as was the custom at the time. They were valiant, but hopelessly outnumbered, and therefore each was killed in turn.  All of Husain's family was massacred in front of his eyes, even his six-month old son, Ali Asghar, who was pierced through the throat by an arrow from the renowned archer of Yazid's army, Hurmula. After Husain's teenage son Ali Akbar was killed, he is said to have proclaimed, "Now my back is broken." But the last to die before him, was his beloved brother, Abbas, while trying desperately to break through Yazid's ranks and bring water back from the Euphrates for Husain's young daughter, Sakeena. And then Husain himself was killed.

The followers of Ali (the Shia) said to themselves that they would never allow this horrific event to be forgotten, and that they would mourn Husain and his family's murder forever, and for the last thirteen hundred years, they have lived up to this promise every year. This mourning has given rise to ritualistic displays of grief, which include flagellating oneself with one's hands, with chains, with knives, etc. It can all seem quite strange, out of context, but remembrance of that terrible day at Kerbala has also given rise to some of the most sublime poetry ever written (a whole genre in Urdu, called Marsia, is devoted to evoking the events of Ashura), and some of us, religious or not, still draw inspiration from the principled bravery and sacrifice of Husain on that black day.

Earlier today, I took the following unlikely pictures on the ritziest road in New York City, Park Avenue:

This is the procession commemorating Ashura, or the 10th of Moharram. In front, you can see a painstakingly recreated model of the tomb of Husain. The mourners are dressed mostly in black. It is a testament to the tolerance of American society that despite the best attempts of some of its cleverest citizens to proclaim a "clash of civilizations," it allows (and observes with curiosity) such displays of foreign sentiment.

The procession is made up of Shias of various nationalities, with the largest contingents being from Pakistan and Iran.

A young Shia holds up a banner, perhaps forgetting for a second that he is supposed to be mourning.

 

You can see one of the coffins with roses on it, which are ritualistically carried in the procession.

The self-flagellation is in full swing at this point. (The arms are raised before coming down to beat the chest.)

This is "Zuljana" or Husain's horse, caparisoned with silks and flowers.

The self-flagellation, or matam, reaches a climactic frenzy before ending for Asr prayers. Later in the evening, there are gatherings (or majaalis) to remember the women and children of Husain's family who survived to be held as prisoners of Yazid.

Comments

[aguy109]

Sorry to break into the stream of “sublime poetry”, Abbas, but what we have here is the story of one armed faction with a claim to power being defeated by another, larger, armed faction, from the same emerging Islamic nation, with its claim to power.
This isn’t even like other bitterly remembered defeats, such as the defeat of the Jews by the Romans, the Battle of Culloden or the massacre of Wounded Knee, in which peoples were cruelly subjugated by an invading force from another culture. The Karbala massacre was a nasty internal dispute, apparently devoid even of any substantial ideological content or any claim of supernatural events, which occurred 14 centuries ago.
I fail to see how this justifies perpetuating the blood feud forever, and teaching one’s sons, generation after generation, to flagellate themselves with chains! Fact: people sometimes get killed in Ashura processions. What are the NYPD or Social Services supposed to do if they know about parents who are making their children whip themselves with chains?
I realize that people develop a fondness and loyalty to their cultural traditions and collective memories, even if they themselves have loosened their ties, but this is just way beyond tolerability!

[JonJ]

The "Judeo-Christian" (minus Islamic) religious tradition is certainly much more familiar to people in this country, and the Islamic tradition tends to look very bloodthirsty to them. But what Christians call the Old Testament is full of battles and massacres by God's people, which the faithful today mostly try to forget. All of these religions began with blood-shedding; the difference seems to be that Muslims don't forget.

[aguy109]

My criticism of the Ashura procession is about the whipping and bloodletting that happens today, not about events of centuries ago. The definition of extremism is taking things to extremes. Having someone cut off my foreskin when I was a week old was more than enough, but at least it was only done once. Being forced by parents or peer pressure or questionable religious dictates to whip oneself with sharpened chains every year is not conducive to mental or physical health.
Does anyone think that’s a ‘racist’ attitude?

[fred lapides]

That such nonsense endures even today is beyond my imagination. It is true that the early zealots of this or that or all religions were unrelenting in going after those not accepting their beliefs, but today, when there are more relaible exaplanations for how we got here, what happens to us when we die etc and to hold on to those child-like notions of Heaven and Hell is about the same as continuing to believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus...there comes a time to outgrow that sort of thing. Now it would be just fine if many people decide to cling to those beliefs, but when so much violence and bloodshed results from theose believs, then that set of beliefs ils destructive, harmful, and for me disgusting.

[Hektor Bim]

I saw an Ashura procession in Chicago one day downtown. Pretty nicely done, actually. There were all kinds of people dressed in black (even women pushing strollers) marching down the street. A number of them were beating their chests and saying something (which I can't remember) with a remarkable degree of synchronicity. There were teenage boys shadowing the procession handing out pamphlets explaining Ashura. All in all, one of the more impressive and even somewhat fun parades I've seen - though of course people are mourning.

I've always liked Ashura - it always seemed to me to be basically a commemorative defiance against tyrants and their horrific acts, and even has elements of satyagraha.

Most Shia, from what I understand, don't mortify themselves and draw blood on Ashura, but some people do. To my mind, its not that different from the cilice and Opus Dei. Some people just take things too far, whether it is Jains fasting near to death or people harming themselves in Ashura.

[Asad]

Hector, you are correct: a very small minority of participants lacerate themselves. (By the way, you were entirely right to deplore my diction a while back - "sedition" was the wrong word.)

It's surprising to me how alien the whole thing is felt to be by commenters here. Something here (blood?) is being sensed as beyond the threshhold of the usual cultural pluralism. To me, the proper analogue for understanding Shia guilt and mourning is Catholicism, which articulates similar feelings using images and passion plays of the sufferings of the crucifixion.

[Elatia Harris]

Thank you for this essay, Abbas. This is is a timely occasion to remember that self-wounding of one kind or another has historically played a role in a majority of religions. The thinking across the boards is that the mortification of the flesh brings about a more spiritual state, for purposes of empathy, remembrance, and purification. Whether a Catholic priest wears a hair shirt every day or a Shi'ite Muslim self-flagellates one day a year seems very much the business of the parties most nearly concerned. It is for the willingness of deeply religious or angry or frightened people to torture others in the name of whatever they worship that we should reserve our disgust. But that's hard to do if it involves looking in the mirror.

[maniza]

Abbas, thank you for this posting.
Maniza

[Tomas Jogin]

Nice article.. however, you don't really explain the difference between Shia and Sunni, you only describe a single historic event. This is like explaining the difference between Judaism and Christianity by describing the event of the death of Jesus.

Interesting, but shallow, please do follow up with an article describing the cultural and practical differences of Shia and Sunni today.

[fred lapides]

here is the difference for those asking

http://islam.about.com/cs/divisions/f/shia_sunni.htm

[me]

aguy109 and anyone that says that "such nonsense to this day is beyond your comprehension".

Open your hypocritical eyes and look at the Ireland/UK conflict between protestants and catholics. All the author did was describe the history behind a present condition. Not condone violence.
And while it might be easy to just blame the whole of muslims, you just have to turn your gaze by 200 miles to the east of Iraq to see that Lebannon is the host of serious sectarian violence not only between Christian and Muslim groups, but also *within* Christian groups. Compound this with the fact the Israel is not completely neutral in all of this. Judaism officially doesn't recognize neither Islam nor Christianity.

By your comments, the star of David, the Cross, the Menorah are all antequated trite concepts. Oh, and to surpass religion, railroad tracks are antequated and old too. Did you know that their width is to this day still the same width as carriage roads from the roman empire?

[you]

"Judaism officially doesn't recognize neither Islam nor Christianity."

And viceversa in all three ways. Some groups more violently than others.

However, Christians, Muslims and Jews coexist in full equality in Israel. You are equating Judaism to Israel, which is not the case.

You would be much pressed to find similar conditions of equality of religions in predominantly muslim states.

[someone else]

In response to "you"'s comment: "And viceversa in all three ways".

Islam recognizes both judaism and christianity as valid religions.

[Zara Houshmand]

Thanks, Asad, for the mind-blowing pictures. I never thought I would live to see Ashura on Park Avenue! In response to the other comments, there is much more going on here than meets the eye, and it's not all about self-flagelation and blood-letting. Ashura processions that I've seen in rural Iran are more subdued, a reenactment of a very moving drama that ties the community together through participatory theatre. In urban settings the cathartic effect is more obvious, with the most desperate populations--eg. Afghan refugees--providing the most over-the-top display of emotion. So to see this in Manhattan raises new questions about the meaning of the ritual in context.

[bahaar]

It is worth mentioning that an increasingly popular form of 'blood-letting' by devout Shias during muharram these days is donating blood to the Red Cross.

[John]

A question for Abbas Raza (or any other Muslim participating in this discussion): Thank you for the historic origin of the Shia/Sunni split. How is this difference manifested today between *moderate* Muslims (I don't want to hear about the the crazy extremists on either side)? Is it more a matter of who is the "leader" of the world-wide Islamic community (analogous to the differences between Catholic and Anglican Christians)? Or are there substantial doctrinal differences?

[Tamoor]

The true muslims are the sunnis look at the Islamic History and see what they both believe. Sunnis are the true followers of the Prophet (PBUH).

[Elatia Harris]

Does anyone notice there are unintentionally overlapping discussions going on here -- different pages of the same blog, of course? Many comments pertaining to "Scientists Bridging the Spirituality Gap" might figure in the "Shia and Sunni..." conversation, as well. And vice versa. Perhaps this is because what we ourselves believe is Science, and what others believe is Spirituality, or even, the Spirituality Gap itself.

[Panzerfaust]

the wine drinking and guitar playing idiots here idolize Imam Hussain and criticize Yazid ,....your version of karbala is just pure fiction ...karbala was the finale in the conflict which started at Badr and reached its climax at siffin....
since then ummayyads the real enemies of islam have infiltarted the muslims ...dynasties both shia and sunni have imitated the ummayyads in their ways.

if you want to celebrate karbala get rid of the darbari culture of the safavids and nawabs of awadh

[bill]

someone else -- but then explain why people are sentenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity.

You can claim that Islam recognizes other religions all you want, but the proof comes when they achieve political power, and the evidence is not on your side.

[me]

"You" and "somebody else"

My mistake, I didn't mean to equate Israel and Judaism, which normally I find to be the most insulting of arguments in a conversation.

As for the religions, it's quite logical, but maybe it needs to be pointed out that Christianity recognizes Judaism from which it came, and Islam recognizes *both* of them as valid. (In fact, on the day of the judgment - Kiyamet - of the Koran, it is said that Jesus will come). It's just a question of precedence really.
As far as Judaism is concerned, and I mean this in no inflamatory way, both of the others are mere cults. Deviations from the only accepted faith.

To answer John in a purely personal opinion matter: there's a saying in Arabic which I find very appropriate. "Me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against my neighbour, me and my neighbour against an enemy tribe".
Basically what it means is that under stress, arabs - and this is differnet from muslims, but just hear me out here - tend to band together. It also works in the other direction as well.
I find that it's similar in most cases for most people around the world except that it's not formulated this way. The bottom line is that if there's nothing to complain about, everybody minds their business.
But when blame needs to be dealt out, because of famine, poverty, war etc. The reason starts with other religions, until it passes through intra-religious factions, and then finally inter-personal factions.
It's always the case. It's just human nature, wouldn't you say? As far as moderate muslims I know, they simply don't really care what your religion is.

[Joel]

I see that Sunnis came together to vote on a successor to Mohammed, so why is that so few Sunni states are democratic these days?

[fred lapides]

here ils a big attempt to bring the Shia and Sunnis together, a very nice plea indeed:
http://tinyurl.com/397b4e

The Irish? Catholics verus
Protestants, mostly. And the Brit as colonialists. I did not excuse or justify "Christians" of killing each other (Catholics abndProtestants) in Ireland. In fact, the post is not about Ireland or Christianity.But the examjple a good one of how religions that touts love, kindness, humility ,forgiveness continues to be destructive, hate-filled, and vengeful...
I would simply say: go forth and sin no more
I have no uarrel with anyone having a religion he or she believbes in till the time when such beliefs lead to killing and mayhem against others in the name of that religion, at which point, yes, indeed, it is fully evil and without justification

[KC]

My ignorance is showing: several years in a row, Muslim folk in town have shared with neighbors a special dessert on Ashura, along with a legend about sharing on the ark that made it possible to survive the flood. Is this Sunni? Another tradition entirely? And how, if at all, does it fit with the mourning/resistance of tyrants?

[panzerfaust]

joel
there were no sunnis and shias in those days....they were all one they prayed in the same mosque

[Levi]

Nice post and pictures Abbas. New York City really has it all, as Joey Ramone used to say.

[Chris G]

I have no religion. None. I believe when I'm dead, I'm dead. I don't "worship" anyone, I've never been through any rites of passage or ceremonies other than the getting married thing. Sure, the priest (or was it a minister?) mentioned "God" a few times during his bit, but I didn't pay much attention. I have absolutely no religion. I think they label people like me "atheists", but I don't much care about that either.

I care about my kids. I care about my dog. I care about my health. I care about my plants. I'd like to be a journalist, but I'm a computer guy. If I were to walk in front of a bus tomorrow, it would be nice to think my "spirit" traveled up to a cloud and lived on for eternity, but I know it doesn't.

Does the "spirit" of a blade of grass go to grass heaven? Don't be ridiculous you might say. Where do you draw the line? Do dogs have spirits? How about really dumb people?

Do I find it interesting what occurred some 14 centuries ago? Somewhat, I guess. Do I think it really matters? No. Do I think people who pick sides based on what happened 14 centuries ago are nuts? Yeah. Why don't they spend their time learning a new language, or helping poor people, or making money, or reading a book. To go through what you've got pictured in this post really is nuts. Sure it might be fun for an afternoon's enjoyment (a stretch), but to DEEPLY "believe" in it? Wow.

The only way to live in a peaceful world is if we all become atheists.

[sandie]

there are thousands of beliefs,religions,etc.all over the entire world for different reasons..some are born into it,some are educated into it,some are tricked into it,and so forth..everyone wants to belong to something.But many are not aware that they were given a soul at birth,and it will spend eternity in only one of two places.HEAVEN OR HELL.Prayer is the key and faith unlocks the door!

[Anonymous]

Chris G: Couldn't agree with you more. Let's hope the curse of faith vanishes sometime in the future!

sandie: You know that time when you found out Santa Clause wasn't real? Well, let me hint at what's going on... There's more evidence that Santa exists than there is evidence for any of the religious "truths" out there!

[Sam]

Even on this blog they fight and claim that they are the true "Muslims". What a bunch of brain washed individuals.

Besides minor ideological differences (like leadership and evolution of religion) there is no real difference between the Shiites and Sunnis, they both believe in the same Islamic principles.

For those of you who don't know why Shiites mourn, they are mourning a massacre in which children and women were slaughtered including the descendants of Muhammad. It was not a war, not a defeat, but a massacre of civilians traveling between two cities.
If you cannot relate, think why Americans still mourn WTC? And they will for centuries.

I think this whole Sunni-Shiite debate is stupid, we are in the 21st century! I am an Iraqi and my grand-mother is Sunni, grand-father is Shiite. Nobody cared if you are Sunni or Shiite until the Bush admin re-ignited this centuries old debate to establish an ill fated political structure in Iraq. I really hope the violence does not spread in the rest of the Muslim world.
Imagine if somebody came to the US and decided that political parties should be Black, White Catholics and White Protestants. Then you get a bunch of ignorant followers who would take it to arms and believe that Catholics are better than Protestants (or vise versa) then start killing each other.....

These stupid rituals were outlawed in Iraq for decades, yet now they are practiced with most gruesome details. Everyone has the right to mourn, just do it in a civilized manner!
What a waste! What a waste!

[Ed]

Isn't it cool that all the religons have God and they all think he is great? I'm sure God is really pleased that his children are all fighting over the fact that they all believe in him.

Humanity is stupid. Straight up. Love one another, optionally love God (depending upon the flavour of religion you like best) and leave it at that.

Oh, and smile sweetly at strangers, you'll brighten their day :)

[Ernie Oporto]

So when will the Muslims flagellate themselves for all the non-Muslim souls they have killed over the centuries? Will they cry over that and vow never to repeat that? Or is that pretty much OK with everyone?

[maniza]

I decided to repost Sam's response because I think it is important:
Besides minor ideological differences (like leadership and evolution of religion) there is no real difference between the Shiites and Sunnis, they both believe in the same Islamic principles.

For those of you who don't know why Shiites mourn, they are mourning a massacre in which children and women were slaughtered including the descendants of Muhammad. It was not a war, not a defeat, but a massacre of civilians traveling between two cities.
If you cannot relate, think why Americans still mourn WTC? And they will for centuries.

I think this whole Sunni-Shiite debate is stupid, we are in the 21st century! I am an Iraqi and my grand-mother is Sunni, grand-father is Shiite. Nobody cared if you are Sunni or Shiite until the Bush admin re-ignited this centuries old debate to establish an ill fated political structure in Iraq. I really hope the violence does not spread in the rest of the Muslim world.
Imagine if somebody came to the US and decided that political parties should be Black, White Catholics and White Protestants. Then you get a bunch of ignorant followers who would take it to arms and believe that Catholics are better than Protestants (or vise versa) then start killing each other.....

These stupid rituals were outlawed in Iraq for decades, yet now they are practiced with most gruesome details. Everyone has the right to mourn, just do it in a civilized manner!
What a waste! What a waste!

[mike3k]

This is why I believe the past should be forgotten rather than celebrated. As long as we keep dredging up events like this from the past, the same conflicts will continue. It would be much better to just forget about these events, put them behind us, forgive, and move on.

[Abbas Raza]

I got a renewed sense of how reasonable the commenters are (for the most part), and how polite the discussion is here at 3QD after coming upon this (scroll down to the comments, which are of the "I would've thought people in NYC would've had enough balls to prevent this shit...not even 6 years out and these vermin are parading around?" variety).

The link is http://www.mma.tv/tuf/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=977087&FID=2&pc=9

To those who felt that I did not explain enough here, all I can say is that I did not (and still don't) have time enough to write something more substantive. (I called my photo-essay "ludicrously short," didn't I?) You can look at Wikipedia here, and there are other references listed there.

[maniza]

In Karachi we have a joke-:-On Ashura a foreigner found himself suddenly on the roadside from where the Ashura procession was proceeding--horrified and alarmed by all the weeping,wailing and self beatings--he asked his guide what this was about---the guide explained that there was a massacre in Karbala--the prophet's family was killed by a tyrant king--yadi yadi yadah--and the foreigner exclaimed "Gosh, Hotdamn, Golly gee! And they just found out????"
Also--In Karachi there are about 700 processions for Muharram-- particularly around Ashura--of these 300 or so are Shi'a associations and organizations while about 400 are Sunni organizations and associations--The most amazing sight for all this is on the night of the 9th of Muharram or the eve of Ashura--in Karadar in Kakri grounds--where the Sunni associations have a fabulous procession which moves alongside the Shi'a processions--with the sound of hands thumping chests---drums, song, dirges, banners--alongside this the Sunni procession is complete with floats depicting the battle field--children wearing colorful paper hats and blowing little plastic and paper trumpets; acrobats and --and fire eaters blowing out huge massive flames--lots of noise and commotion--people celebrating and congratulating each other on Hussain's victory of keeping Islam alive. It feels like a battle has just ended---in which there is immense grief, pathos and a sense of immense victory--the tradition being that Islam has been renewed because of the prophet's grandson's and his household's sacrifice and grief at their deaths. And there is plenty of food--cooked in gigantic earthern and copper pots--on open fires--haleem and sheermals and kheer---and sherbet made from milk and pistachios and rose water. Most of the cooks are Sunni and the donations for the food are Sunni and Shia. We all joke that our beloved Hussain died of thirst and hunger------while most of us get fat--during Muharram. Its absolutely brilliantly colorful and joyful and passionate, paradoxical, complex and inexplicably wonderful and, and----did I say Passionate. I love it. And while I'll not walk on coals, nor whip myself, nor breath fire--and am far too squeamish to join the long lines giving blood at the blood banks along the way ----I love every moment of the pageant and the sentiment that has kept this alive for 1300 years and in Karachi for hundreds of years

[ME]

mike what you said is very interesting but if you think about most of the religions teach to help the poor, educate the children to help the society and so on i don't think there is a religion that promotes violence, and if some people think there is a religion that does trust me there isn't; its the people who promote it not the religion itself. am sure if everyone followed their faith in the correct manner there would be no violence.

its just people who like to pick and chose bits of faiths to bring about differences that causes conflicts.

OH AND ERNIE, YOU SEE ITS NOT ALL THE MUSLIMS THAT MOURN BUT ONLY A SMALL SECT and i agree with you why dont they mourn for everyone rather than one person since religion teaches everyone is equal, MUSLIMS are only DEFENDING THEMSELVES WHEN A WAR IS BROKEN OUT ITS DOESNT COME ABOUT FOR NO REASON.
AND I GUESS YOU TOTALLY BLIND TO THE AMOUNT OF MUSLIMS DYING EVERYDAY SINCE THE WAR ON IRAQ STARTED -YET WHEN ONE NON MUSLIM (US SOLDIER) DIES ITS KNOW AROUND THE WORLD.

[Siroos]

These are almost certainly all Pakistanis and Lebanese, plus maybe people affiliated with the Iranian mission to the UN. Otherwise, Iranian expats have actually escaped scenes like this to settle in the West. But these days it's all fun and games for kids in Tehran:
http://www.sepantra.com/albumshow.asp?a_id=114

[smuggler]

There are some historical errors in this post.

First and foremost it is anachronism to claim that Abu Bakr (RA) and his followers were Sunni and Ali (RA) and his followers were Shia.

These factions did not exist in those days. The argument about who would be the successor to the Prophet (SAV)did not last longer than a few days and Ali (RA) accepted the election result and participated to the system as a leader. The system was spolitically stable also with teh suppport of Ali (RA) until the murder of Othman (RA) the other son-in-law of the Prophet (SAV) and in the turmoil Umayyah family emerged as the rulers of the Islamic Caliphate. Yazid who is hated by almost every Muslim Sunni or Shia killed the grandson of the Prophet and the divide became much apparent.

Shia have several factions contradicting the main stream Islam. For example Alawi's of Syria believes Ali is the god, and some other factions believe that Ali (RA) is the real prophet. The main stream Shia is mcuh closer to Sunni's in that sense. The about.com article which was referred in a comment explains the differences quite adequately.

The Ashura ritual is something traditional which may seem awkward to outsiders. This year the Shia community in Turkey commemorated the Karbala massecre buy donating blood and I think this is really agreeable

[alper]

i think there is a mistake the one and only mistake is about sunnis. They are not the people who had elected abu bakir (RA).
Sunnis are the third party, they didnt support anyone. They didnt support Ali (RA) and Yazid's father. They just didnt want a war in islam so agreed to kill both.
unfortunately they havent succeeded they could only killed Ali. and this was the beginning of seperation.
Actually although i am a sunni you are right about the yazid. in turkish yezid (comes from the name yazıd in arabic) means very bad person.

[Akbi]

Asad's point about the analogous nature of Shi'a rituals and Catholic rituals is right on (as was his wondering why the usual cultural pluralism and intellectually advanced dialogue one encounters on 3QD is so...subdued? in this whole Moharram discussion--I think it is the natural revulsion to blood that freaks people out the first time they witness or hear about the self-flagellation by Shi'as during Moharram, Asad).
Maniza, I enjoyed your article--I never knew Sunnis took such part in Moharram. Most of the Sunnis I know have no clue what Moharram is. I have to tell you though--perhaps this speaks to a key difference in Shi'a/Sunni culture: what you mentioned at the end of your comment(how Sunnis have a "joke" that while Hussain died of hunger and thirst on the 10th of Moharram, today Sunni "celebrations" of that day are marked by Sunni feasts and how ironic and ha-ha funny that is--that is just inherently, viscerally appalling to someone raised in a (culturally, not religiously) Shi'a household! I know you didn't mean anything by it, I just thought it was an interesting and new way to look at how Sunnis and Shi'as view so differently what happened to Hussain, et. al. Abbasi--I can't believe that website you linked to, with those horrific, racist comments--and reading them did make me feel like everyone here on 3qd, though sometimes very passionate, is generally respectful, broad-minded, and has a clue. Too bad you all are a minority in the world!

[Maggie In Florida]

Thank you for this "Ludicrously Short Primer". It was very enlightening...at least for me.

And thank you for the photos.

[Akbi]

Maniza--can you explain more thoroughly thought Sam's post was important enough to repost? I don't mean to sound sassy, I'm honestly asking b/c I am interested in your thoughts on it. Ernie--I see your point about, "When will Muslims mourn the lives they've taken?" But the Muslims who have taken lives in the name of Islam probably feel justified in having done so, so I doubt they'll be mourning it. And some Muslims DO mourn the dead of, say the 9/11 attacks, the bombings of the African embassies by al-Qaeda a few years back, the constant death of Jews, Christians, Muslims--just PEOPLE!--in Israel. I know this to be true. But as always, the truly open-minded and open-hearted are a minority, so you'll probably never see these Muslims in a procession down Park Ave.

[Mohsin]

Jazak'Allah Bro. Nice piece.

Ernie, I suggest you read "Islam: A Short History" by Karen Armstrong to see how misplaced your opinion is.

[Reza]

I just tried to collect some words from some reliable sources hope It will help!

Some words about Shia:

Shī‘a Islam, also Shi‘ite Islam or Shi‘ism (Arabic شيعة šīʿa), is the second largest denomination of the Islamic faith after Sunni Islam. Shias adhere to the teachings of Muhammad and the religious guidance of his family (who are referred to as the Ahl al-Bayt) or his descendents known as Shi'a Imams. Muhammad's bloodline continues only through his daughter Fatima Zahra and her husband Ali ibn Abu Talib, who alongside the Muhammad's grandsons are among the Ahl al-Bayt ("people of the house [of Muhammad]"). Thus, Shi'as consider Muhammad's descendents as the true source of guidance while considering the first three ruling Sunni caliphs a historic occurrence and not something attached to faith. The singular/adjective form is šīʿī (شيعي.) and refers to a follower of the faction of Imam Ali according to the Shia ideology.

Shia Islam, like Sunni Islam, has at times been divided into many branches; however, only three of these currently have a significant number of followers. The best known and the one with most adherents is the Twelvers (اثنا عشرية iṯnāʿašariyya) which have a large percentage in Iran 90% and Iraq; the others are Ismaili, Sevener, and Zaidiyyah. Alawites and Druzes consider themselves Shias, although this is sometimes disputed by mainstream Shias[1]. The Sufi orders among the Shias are the Alevi, Bektashi, Kubrawiya, Noorbakhshi, Oveyssi, Qizilbashi, Hamadani and Fatimid orders and denominations. Twenty percent of Turkey's population is Alevi while Lebanon and Syria have a large presence of Druze and Alawites.

- Main doctrines
The Shia believe in the five pillars of Islam, as do Sunnis, but categorize them differently. Shia beliefs include the following:

Theology of Shia (Usūl al-Dīn)

* Tawhīd (Oneness): The Oneness of God
* 'Adalah (Justice): The Justice of God
* Nubuwwah (Prophethood): God has appointed perfect and infallible prophets and messengers to teach mankind the religion (that is, a perfect system of how to live in "peace" ("submission to God"))
* Imamah (Leadership): God has appointed specific leaders to lead and guide mankind — a prophet appoints a custodian of the religion before his demise
* Qiyamah (The Day of Judgment): God will raise mankind for Judgment

Some Words About Imam Husayn:
Ḥusayn ibn ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib (حسين بن علي بن أﺑﻲ طالب)‎ (626-680) was the grandson of Muhammad. His mother was Muhammad's daughter Fatima Zahra and his father was Muhammad's cousin, first Shi’ah Imam, and the fourth Sunni Caliph, Ali ibn Abu Talib. Hussain ibn Ali is revered as the third Imam by Shi’ahs.

He was martyred in the Battle of Karbala in 680 CE. The anniversary of his death is called Ashura and it is a day of mourning and religious observance for Shi'ah Muslims.
Ali's caliphate and the claims of his sons

Husayn's father, Ali, was caliph from 656 to 661 CE. He faced continual challenges to his rule, and was assassinated by Ibn Muljim, in the city of Kufa. Ali's followers proclaimed his eldest son Hasan as caliph. Muawiyah, the governor of Syria, had fought Ali for the leadership of the empire and now prepared to fight Hasan. After a few inconclusive skirmishes between the armies of Hasan and Muawiyah, Hassan decided to spare his followers, and the Islamic empire, the agonies of another civil war. He signed a treaty with Muawiyah and retired to private life in Medina.

This could have been a temporary reverse for the Alids and their supporters. When Muawiyah died, the caliphate would be open again, and Hasan and Husayn, as grandsons of Muhammad and the sons of a caliph, would have a good claim to leadership. Hasan died in 669, while Muawiyah was still alive, leaving Husayn as the head of the Alids. However, Muawiyah chose to proclaim his son Yazid his heir while he was still alive, thus attempting to turn the caliphate from an elective into an inherited position, and removing Husayn from consideration as the next caliph.

Muawiyah died in 680 CE. In Damascus, Muawiyah's capital and the heart of his power, Yazid was acclaimed as caliph. However, other parts of the Islamic empire were less willing to acknowledge Yazid. Citizens of Kufa, in what is now Iraq, invited Husayn, Ali's eldest surviving son, to come lead them in a revolt against Yazid. Husayn was then in Mecca, having fled Medina to evade the forces of Yazid. He gathered his wives and children, and the few warriors who would commit to him, and marched towards Kufa.ya ali

Battle of Karbala:
The Battle of Karbala took place on Muharram 10, 61 AH (October 9 or 10, 680 CE) (Persian: هجدهم یا نوزدهم مهر ماه 59 خورشيدی‎) [2] [3] in Karbala, in present day Iraq. On one side were supporters and relatives of Muhammad's grandson Husayn ibn Ali; on the other side was a military detachment from the forces of Yazid I, the Umayyad caliph.

Husayn ibn Ali's group consisted of notable members of Muhammad's close relatives, around 72 men, of which some were either very old or very young. Husayn and some members of his group were accompanied by some of the women and children from their families. On the opposite side, the armed forces of Yazid I were led by Umar ibn Sa'ad and contained at least 4,000 men.

The battle field was a desert region located beside one of the branches of the Euphrates River. The battle resulted in the military defeat of Husayn ibn Ali's group, the murder of almost all of his men, and the captivity of all women and children.

The Battle of Karbala is one of the most significant battles in the history of Shiite Muslims.

This battle also had significant effects on formation of subsequent revolts against the Umayyad dynasty.
The battle of Husayn ibn Ali is commemorated during an annual 10-day period held every Muharram, culminating on its tenth day, Ashurah.

Shi'a views of Husayn

Shi'ites regard Husayn as an Imam and a martyr. They state that he knew that his efforts were doomed, but set out on his path towards martyrdom in order to save Islam and the Ummah from annihilation at the hands of Yazid. According to Shi'a belief he was a willing sacrifice to religious necessity, and Shi'ites view Husayn as an exemplar of courage and resistance against tyranny. Ashura, a day of mourning, is held in honor of his sacrifice. The Shi'a saying, "Every day is Ashura, every land is Karbala," is a reminder to live one's life as Husayn did on Ashura, with total sacrifice to Allah and for others.

[Ashraf]

I would try to explain to all of you something regarding the Shia faith, and differences with Sunnis. But, first of all let me clarify that bloodshed, that happen on the day of Ashura, is not a forced act on the part of parents, but is voluntary done by individuals. Although it is not disallowed, this act is not even encouraged or mandatory from Shiite religious point of view. However what is desirable is beating of chest, similar to the way people mourn when someone in the family dies. We Shiites mourn the deaths/massacre of Imam Husain (AS) and his companions, in Kerbala, and we will strive to keep the memory alive.

As to the differences between Shiites and Sunnis, these are not much compared to the differences amongst various sub-sects of Sunnis themselves, such as Hanafis, Shafiites, Malikis or Hanbalis. What we agree on are Unity of God (there is no other god besides Allah), Messengership/Apostleship/Prophethood of Prophet Mohammed (SAWA), the day of Resurrection, Quran - the book of Allah, Qiblah (direction we face whilst praying). We Shiites have divided our faith logically into two parts, viz. principles (known Usul) and Practise (Furuh al din). It is quite obvious that if you want to practise something your acts should be based on certain principles, thus the division. Amongst the principles we have:
Unity of God (there is no other god besides Allah) - Sunnis agree on this
Adl or justice of Allah (Allah is just and never does any injustice) - Sunnis don't agree on this - they say he can do anything
Messengership/Apostleship/Prophethood of Prophet Mohammed (AS) - Sunnis agree on this
Imamat (Belief in Imams, as the deputy and true heir of Prophet, albeit lower in rank to him) - Sunnis don't agree on this
Qayamat (The day of Resurrection) - Sunnis agree on this

Practises :
Salat./Namaz (Prayers) - Sunnis agree on this
Saum/Roza (Fasting) - Sunnis agree on this
Hajj (Pilgrimage to Mecca) - Sunnis agree on this
Zakat (Charity) - Sunnis agree on this
Khums (donating with 1/5 of the remainder of your annual savings after
deducting all your legal expenses in the way of Allah) - Sunnis don't believe in this practice
Jihad (Holy war) - Sunnis agree on this - but differ in the definition
Amr bil Maroof (Doing good deeds) - Sunnis don't believe in this practice
Nahiyy anil Munkar (Abstaining from bad deeds) - Sunnis don't believe in this practice
Tawalla (Seeking Closeness to the friends of Imam) -Sunnis don't believe in this practice
Tabarrah (Seeking refuge/staying away from enemies of Imam) - Sunnis don't believe in this practice

After Prophet Mohammed (SAWA) we consider his progeny or holy Imams as his successors in the matter of diving guidance and our day to lives, while Sunnis followed the Caliphate. Shiites are the followers of Imam Ali (AS) and his descendents, while Sunnis followed the Caliphs and even today they have high regards for tyrants like Yezid. The fact is that the Aristocrats of Mecca were totally against the teachings of Prophet Mohammed (SAWA), and they opposed and fought with him. The most important person who always fought for and defended Prophet Mohammed (SAWA), and killed several of the prominent enemies of Islam was Ali ibn Abi Talib (AS), who was the cousin and son in law of Prophet Mohammed (SAWA). As long as Ali (AS) was around the enemies were not able to harm Prophet Mohammed (SAWA). The biggest tragedy of Islam was at the time of conquest of Mecca, all the enemies of Islam who were hell bent on destroying Islam, became Muslim, though they did so just to save their lives. They continued to consprire against the infant religion. After the departure of Prophet Mohammed (SAWA), everyone who suffered at the hands of Ali ibn Abi Talib (AS), rallied against him, planted false stories, and tried to tarnish his image, and even during the Ummayad rule, on every Friday, they used to curse Ali ibn Abi Talib (AS). We Shiites have been the most oppressed of all the human beings. We do not encourage terrorism nor do we sympathise with terrorist, because we have been victim of state sponsored terrorism for many centuries. We do not condone suicide bombings, or killing of the innocents, etc. We are peace loving people. As our saying goes "Live like Ali ibn Abi Talib (AS), and die like Imam Husain ib Ali (AS)," we shall continue to live peacefully and contribute to the well being of the society, whether it is America, UK, Iran, Iraq, India, or Pakistan. But if someone dares to threaten our peace and infringe upon our rights, then we will be contstrained to take appropriate action, though we shall never transgress the limit. I hope my friends should have a somewhat clearer picture now with regard to the differences between Shiites and Sunnis

[TAHA]

Mr. Abbas,

With all due respect, i would appreciate it highly if you dont take the name of my elders in such a demenaning sort of a way. I totally respect your faith and being brought up in a religious Shia back ground. I suggest you keep in mind the sentiments of the people who have been ordained by the quran as The ones whom god has shown his pleasure upon. And some of the names Like Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddique, is one of them.
SO please read History from Both prespectives. Wa ma ALina Illal Balagh ul Mubeen!

[Mahmood]

- I just recently celebrated Martin Luther King Day like everyone else. Why? Because he stood for justice and equality.

- I like Albert Einstein, Mahatma Ghandi and Mother Theresa because they all had great contribution to how my life has shaped today (trust me, it could have been worst :)).

- I know that there are christians who nail themselves to the cross on Easter (http://www.pilotguides.com/tv_shows/globe_trekker/shows/specials/great_festivals.php) and I don't judge them.

- I know that when someone dies in an arab family, their way of mourning is by beating their chests. Something symbolic that I don't think too much of.

- I know Qur'aan (Koran) says "there is no compulsion in religion". So if you want to follow whatever religion you want, it's up to you. I could care less. As long as you are not harming others.

- Among others, I believe that David, Moses, Jesus came to us with a message. This was a message to believe in the One Almighty God and to lead "a good life" (help your neighbor, feed the poor... the whole 9 yards)

- I believe that Mohammed came to deliver the same message again and perfect it. In Koran, God says to Mohammed "today, I have perfected for you your religion..." the operative word here is "perfected" and not "given you a brand new religion".

- I know that the Koran speaks highly and in kind regards of all those who believed in God and the "scriptures before it".. and were among the "good doers".

- I believe that Ali lived in Peace with Abu-Bakr, Omar and Uthman. In fact, they would constantly go to Ali for advice. I will also live in Peace with them no matter what the differences.

- I know that Muawwiya and his son Yazid were ruthless people who manipulated media/information and used fear and lies to rule (i know many americans can totally relate to this right now) - we voted for the same guy twice out of fear.

- I know that no political leader before of after Yazid in the Islamic state ever asked for endorsement from the "house of mohammed"

- I know that Hussain, the son of Ali was at his time regarded by all around him as the most pious.

- I know that Hussain would have preferred peace. in fact, he asked to be let go and he would take his family to exile. But Yazid was blood thirsty.

- I know that Yazid was the only ruthless ruler who was stupid enough to demand endorsement from the leader in the house of mohammed (Hussain).

- I know that if Hussain endorsed Yazid as a religious leader, Islam would have died. Hussain would not endorse Yazid out of principle, and because he could not lie and say Yazid was fit to be a religious leader.

- I know that Hussain and his family were ruthlessly murdered by the army of Yazid because he would not endorse Yazid (i.e he would not say "I agree that Yazid is the Muslim Leader - a tradition very important in the arabic culture) It's like a showing loyalty to the leader.

- I know that when the head of Hussain was placed near Yazid's throne, he said "today, I have evenged my grandfather Abu-Sufyan" - who was a sworn enemy of Mohammed and accepted Islam only because he wanted to create mischief from within - kinda like what CIA, KGB and Mosad do :)

- I know my wife cries whenever she watches a sad movie. If it's a well made movie, it brings about emotions in many of us too.

- I was very close to a Jewish professor in college, who basically mentored me through my studies.

- Some of my best friends are Sunni's

- I believe the issue of Israel is one of cultures and not religions. There are Europeans occupying Arab land, and they were granted that piece of land initially by a British Queen.

- I will remember Hussain the way I remember other great personalities, because Hussain was the embodiment of Justice and Sacrifised his life but did not bow down to a Tyrant.

- I will cry if his sad story moves me, just like I'd do if a sad movie moved me.

- I will let others remember him in their own ways, whether to beat their chests, read poems, or walk in protest, just like I don't judge how Christians nail themselves to the cross, or Jews cry next to a wall.

I am a Humain Bein,
I am a Muslim,
I am a Shia

It's that simple.

[Mahmood]

see http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=owCXbDVTLRE&NR=1

[Farrukh]

Every day is Ahsura
Every land is karbala

durrod bar shaheedan-e-rahe-e-khuda

[doug l]

Despite the followers assertions, every great leader in thinking has always advocated the same thing; Stop being such asses. But it doesn't matter,
'because we just keep on going along being asses. Islam certainly fits that mold no matter how much asses like being asses,or how much they believe their deluded leadership told them to act like asses.
Are there no comments on how Islam has so many parallel with Mormonism and, as we will eventually see, Scientology? The result of some kind of epileptic seizure in the brain, as we are now discovering in neuroscience. Of course religion for the most part is the result of delusion and misinterpretation by leadership with serious mental problems; visions and whatnot. But how is it they others to belive it? Are we born with the seeds of our own intellectual destruction and perverse propensity to nurture and spread it for some sense of belonging or for simplicity sake among our fellow monkeys...to put our internal squabbling to rest? It'd be funny if these armies of semi-trained asses didn't go around killing folk over asinine stuff. And, yes, I appreciate the respectful tone, but really, asses are asses and silly to the point of idiocy when they aren't actually left with power to hurt others.
Stupid monkeys just wont learn, will we?
Oh,and even though I don't believe in any religions based on faith in the unknowable, I don't think that people who change their minds should be killed, and I am waiting for the Islamic world, anyone in the Islamic world, to actually help those who have awakened to the realization that Islam is the real thing. At that time I will celebrate the awakening that our future as humans is needing right now.

[Asim Lodhi]

Would the Prophet Muhammad PBUH have liked Shias mourning the death of his grandson the way they do if he were alive today? Would he have flagellated himself every year?

[Al Haidar]

Asim Lodhi, if you open the sacred Sahih's you will find a hadith in which the Prophet (saaw) consoles his daughter Fatima (as) (the mother of Imam Husain (as). When Fatima was told about the forthcoming tragic death of her beloved Husain, Fatima weeped. It was then the Prophet said, 'There will be a nation that will remember and weep for your Husain.'

Muharram 1431 - Videos:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-375742

[Ali Asad Xaidi]

It took too long to read the post. there are some minor mistakes in the begining which later led to the bigger ones.Fist Shia are those who followed Caliphs of Almighty Allah. and Sunnis are those who followed thier 4 Imams. the difference starts from the very first belief and that is Tauheed. How ever these are very lengthy topic and has to be discussed in detail. Anyways thosewho wish to seek truth just email me at [email protected] and lets try to find out it with debates between all.

[monty]

The fact that Shia Islam is actually okay with self torture kind of goes against the very basic principle of Islam. This is a religion that bans plastic surgery, tatoos, mourning for more than three days even if it's your son that's passed away (only exception is mourning for your husband) as well as openly mourning any death, especially by women. I fail to believe that this self flagellation and openly crying (especially by women) and beating yourself (again, women beating themselves out in the open? where is the islamic definition of modesty here?) is allowed in Islam.

yet another aspect that raises questions in my head is about the imams. apparently shia islam believes the imams can do no sin. if i am not mistaken, isn't that 'no sin' characteristic for God or Allah alone? i do think that even the prophet Muhammad said that he is a human and hence, not perfect. so how can humans after him attribute perfection to a non prophet even though they are sons of Fatima. also, there is a reason none of his sons survived. maybe God was trying to tell the human race not to revere Muhammad's family and hence the only males that survived were his daughter's sons. doesn't lineage follow the son and not daughter in islam?