Easy enough to make fun olf Fox. Heck, they have great chicks doing their news! Reality: they are not alone, clearly, in oggling babes. Reality: men do react and women often play to this in men, in the office and running for office etc...See some
writers on evolution before you jump all over me. I see a good-looking woman. I notice. If I commented as a public announcer I would be a sexist. if I don't comment, I still take note.
To finish the thought, Digby, reacting to the same video, posted this at Hullabaloo:
"Clinton's campaign ripped open a hole in our culture and forced us to look inside. And what we found was a simmering cauldron of crude, sophomoric sexism and ugly misogyny that a lot of us knew existed but didn't realize was still so socially acceptable that it could be broadcast on national television and garner nary a complaint from anybody but a few internet scolds like me. It was eye-opening, to say the least."
And, now that we have a serious black contender for the presidency, I fear we'll witness the same residue of crudeness in racial matters.
Sexism permeates every aspect of life for women in this country, and in most of the world. Women are considered property -- belongings -- and most men believe women are inferior to men. The prevailing dogma imposed by government, by religion, by the more physically powerful who run everything (men) is the rule that women must be servants and slaves, do what they are told, have sex whenever their male owner wants, have the number of children he dictates, cook, clean, shop, keep quiet, be obedient, have no thoughts or beliefs except those which are approved by her owner, and keep quiet about her own suffering.
If a man had to live under the oppressive conditions that women endure, that man would likely go completely insane within a week.
Violence is the ultimate means used to enforce sexism. Of course most men don't actually punch women in the face -- they use the threat of violence, the angry screaming voice, the assault -- fist waved in the air, verbal threats. And women are denied any real opportunity to earn a decent living in most societies, so men use the threat of leaving the woman, throwing her out, making her destitute, as another means to get their way.
Why don't we have 50% of the judges women, 50% of the governors and state legislatures, 50% of the people in Congress? Why not 50% of the lawyers in top law firms, doctors, CPAs, real estate developers? In the absence of injustice and artificial barriers, over time the members of any profession will tend to reflect the numbers in the population. The fact that women continue to be excluded from all the top-paying most prestigious jobs in the country is no accident. It is the result of an institutional sexism.
The demeaning nasty comments, the ridicule, the offensive staring at body parts, talking about women as if they were all whores, all sex workers, even rape is part of the system of enforcement: don't you start thinking you really belong, because all of us (men) think of you mostly as a piece of meat.
Sexism as a mental attitude can change. But only if the society makes a commitment to ending it. First, by a national commitment to end domestic violence, the war on domestic terrorism that we should be conducting. Next, by creating a real minimum wage so every working woman earns enough to support herself. Next, by mandating 50/50 in hiring and promotion, pushing employers until we have equality in jobs, promotions, opportunity, pay. The rest will follow.
Posted by: NABNYC | Jun 7, 2008 5:17:44 PM
Fred,
For someone who clearly "appreciates" women's physical attributes, it is a shame that you show so little respect for women's intellects. Chicks? What a demeaning and infantilizing way of referring to adult, professional women. I don't like Fox news and tend to avoid mainstream American news broadcasting, but I don't think the women who work in the media deserve to be referred to in such belittling, misogynistic terms.
There evolutionary impulse shared by men and women to appreciate each other's sexual attributes IS NOT license to be disrespectful towards women in professional contexts.
Please don't invoke theories that you clearly misunderstand and that you thereby use as justification for hateful, discriminatory theories about gender. Save it for your own blog.
Posted by: Maeve Adams | Jun 7, 2008 7:05:46 PM
lighten up...I use the street references on purpse and mean no harm. Intellect? I married a woman with a straight A record as an undergrad and an outstanding record in grad school.
Daughters? I have one who is 14.
Self-control: I have lots of it and have never been arrested or had any complaints lodged against me. In passing, I have a "clean" record as a prof at an all-woman's college.
As for the last comment: my wife is a VP at a prestigious place and part of her work is in dealing with male, female, infelictious remarks and actions.
Wow I had no idea how bad it is on TV and among these idiots. Seems like Chris Matthews is one of the worst offenders.
Posted by: Vincennes | Jun 7, 2008 8:07:08 PM
Before it was the "N" word.
Now is antifeminist. Of which I've been acussed unfairly right on this blog.
Fred: kudos and applause from a kindred soul!
Posted by: Felix E F Larocca MD | Jun 7, 2008 8:27:05 PM
Off to bed and will read Goodnight, Moon, as I always do,but wanted to leave you with this one thought:
When was the last time you heard the word "chick" used in ref to a female? Not ever after 1970. The hard-boiled school of detective writers preferred the word "skirt" or "dame." If I use the word "girl," I will be offensive, right? But how often have you heard an African-American woman refer to another female as "girl"?
nighty night.
I'm quite astounded that on a blog such as this, which encourages critical thinking and viewing that there is a discussion such as this. I am a male and yes women are beautiful but there don't you feel respect for women as equals?
To think that humans we have created so many fantastic things and yet we cannot embrace racial and sexual equality. We all know there is sexism rife but to the extent shown in the video makes me sick, a lot of it was political maneuvering which is just as bad.
Fred, yes you can take note but can't you just put it to the back of your mind and think of what their saying? And to mention it in such ways on national television is truly disturbing. When you make crude comments especially in a supposed place news, you just look like your taking the women for their face value and not for what their saying. You may not mean any harm but think before you write and pick your words correctly.
Fred -
Bragging about your 'clean' record is beyond creepy. But taking you at your word, you seem capable of noticing someone you're attracted to but not commenting on it when it's not appropriate. Is it really, really too much to ask media professionals analyzing the race for the most powerful position in the world to do the same?
Posted by: lt | Jun 8, 2008 8:13:08 AM
The comments to 3QD say much, much more than the articles on 3QD.
Fred: The fact that most men will naturally admire a good-looking woman has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the travesty of a national leader being reduced to her body in front of the nation. You cannot and will not provide a decent argument linking these two ideas.
Posted by: Nick Smyth | Jun 8, 2008 11:07:23 PM
It, was it Oprah or the View that commented on Barack Obama's "sexiness"?
Posted by: Anno | Jun 10, 2008 11:56:16 AM
Anno,
I wouldn't consider any of the personalities on those shows to be "media professionals analyzing the race", if, by that, you mean journalists.
Both programs are the equivalent of check-out-counter mags that have little to do with serious journalism (not that much of what we find in TV "news" is either).
"I couldn't tear myself
away from 3 Quarks Daily, to the point of neglecting my work. Congratulations on
this superb site."—Steven
Pinker, Johnstone Professor of Psychology, Harvard University.
"I have placed 3 Quarks Daily at the head of my list of web bookmarks."—Richard
Dawkins, Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University.
"Just wanted you to know I’m one of many who reads and enjoys 3 Quarks....almost daily."—David Byrne, musician, former lead-singer of the Talking Heads, artist, intellectual.
Comments
Easy enough to make fun olf Fox. Heck, they have great chicks doing their news! Reality: they are not alone, clearly, in oggling babes. Reality: men do react and women often play to this in men, in the office and running for office etc...See some
writers on evolution before you jump all over me. I see a good-looking woman. I notice. If I commented as a public announcer I would be a sexist. if I don't comment, I still take note.
Posted by: fred lapides | Jun 7, 2008 1:52:41 PM
Fred.
As the father of daughters I'm wondering what's behind what you say —a man's excuse is that he just can't help himself?
Self-control is one of the marks of adulthood and civilization. It's been a few million years, isn't it time for men to grow up and become civilized?
Jim
Posted by: Jim | Jun 7, 2008 4:51:31 PM
Fred -
To finish the thought, Digby, reacting to the same video, posted this at Hullabaloo:
"Clinton's campaign ripped open a hole in our culture and forced us to look inside. And what we found was a simmering cauldron of crude, sophomoric sexism and ugly misogyny that a lot of us knew existed but didn't realize was still so socially acceptable that it could be broadcast on national television and garner nary a complaint from anybody but a few internet scolds like me. It was eye-opening, to say the least."
And, now that we have a serious black contender for the presidency, I fear we'll witness the same residue of crudeness in racial matters.
We'll see.
Jim
Posted by: Jim | Jun 7, 2008 5:07:37 PM
Sexism permeates every aspect of life for women in this country, and in most of the world. Women are considered property -- belongings -- and most men believe women are inferior to men. The prevailing dogma imposed by government, by religion, by the more physically powerful who run everything (men) is the rule that women must be servants and slaves, do what they are told, have sex whenever their male owner wants, have the number of children he dictates, cook, clean, shop, keep quiet, be obedient, have no thoughts or beliefs except those which are approved by her owner, and keep quiet about her own suffering.
If a man had to live under the oppressive conditions that women endure, that man would likely go completely insane within a week.
Violence is the ultimate means used to enforce sexism. Of course most men don't actually punch women in the face -- they use the threat of violence, the angry screaming voice, the assault -- fist waved in the air, verbal threats. And women are denied any real opportunity to earn a decent living in most societies, so men use the threat of leaving the woman, throwing her out, making her destitute, as another means to get their way.
Why don't we have 50% of the judges women, 50% of the governors and state legislatures, 50% of the people in Congress? Why not 50% of the lawyers in top law firms, doctors, CPAs, real estate developers? In the absence of injustice and artificial barriers, over time the members of any profession will tend to reflect the numbers in the population. The fact that women continue to be excluded from all the top-paying most prestigious jobs in the country is no accident. It is the result of an institutional sexism.
The demeaning nasty comments, the ridicule, the offensive staring at body parts, talking about women as if they were all whores, all sex workers, even rape is part of the system of enforcement: don't you start thinking you really belong, because all of us (men) think of you mostly as a piece of meat.
Sexism as a mental attitude can change. But only if the society makes a commitment to ending it. First, by a national commitment to end domestic violence, the war on domestic terrorism that we should be conducting. Next, by creating a real minimum wage so every working woman earns enough to support herself. Next, by mandating 50/50 in hiring and promotion, pushing employers until we have equality in jobs, promotions, opportunity, pay. The rest will follow.
Posted by: NABNYC | Jun 7, 2008 5:17:44 PM
Fred,
For someone who clearly "appreciates" women's physical attributes, it is a shame that you show so little respect for women's intellects. Chicks? What a demeaning and infantilizing way of referring to adult, professional women. I don't like Fox news and tend to avoid mainstream American news broadcasting, but I don't think the women who work in the media deserve to be referred to in such belittling, misogynistic terms.
There evolutionary impulse shared by men and women to appreciate each other's sexual attributes IS NOT license to be disrespectful towards women in professional contexts.
Please don't invoke theories that you clearly misunderstand and that you thereby use as justification for hateful, discriminatory theories about gender. Save it for your own blog.
Posted by: Maeve Adams | Jun 7, 2008 7:05:46 PM
lighten up...I use the street references on purpse and mean no harm. Intellect? I married a woman with a straight A record as an undergrad and an outstanding record in grad school.
Daughters? I have one who is 14.
Self-control: I have lots of it and have never been arrested or had any complaints lodged against me. In passing, I have a "clean" record as a prof at an all-woman's college.
As for the last comment: my wife is a VP at a prestigious place and part of her work is in dealing with male, female, infelictious remarks and actions.
Posted by: fred lapides | Jun 7, 2008 7:53:50 PM
Wow I had no idea how bad it is on TV and among these idiots. Seems like Chris Matthews is one of the worst offenders.
Posted by: Vincennes | Jun 7, 2008 8:07:08 PM
Before it was the "N" word.
Now is antifeminist. Of which I've been acussed unfairly right on this blog.
Fred: kudos and applause from a kindred soul!
Posted by: Felix E F Larocca MD | Jun 7, 2008 8:27:05 PM
Off to bed and will read Goodnight, Moon, as I always do,but wanted to leave you with this one thought:
When was the last time you heard the word "chick" used in ref to a female? Not ever after 1970. The hard-boiled school of detective writers preferred the word "skirt" or "dame." If I use the word "girl," I will be offensive, right? But how often have you heard an African-American woman refer to another female as "girl"?
nighty night.
Posted by: fred lapides | Jun 7, 2008 9:29:37 PM
I'm quite astounded that on a blog such as this, which encourages critical thinking and viewing that there is a discussion such as this. I am a male and yes women are beautiful but there don't you feel respect for women as equals?
To think that humans we have created so many fantastic things and yet we cannot embrace racial and sexual equality. We all know there is sexism rife but to the extent shown in the video makes me sick, a lot of it was political maneuvering which is just as bad.
Fred, yes you can take note but can't you just put it to the back of your mind and think of what their saying? And to mention it in such ways on national television is truly disturbing. When you make crude comments especially in a supposed place news, you just look like your taking the women for their face value and not for what their saying. You may not mean any harm but think before you write and pick your words correctly.
Posted by: anno | Jun 8, 2008 1:25:08 AM
Fred -
Bragging about your 'clean' record is beyond creepy. But taking you at your word, you seem capable of noticing someone you're attracted to but not commenting on it when it's not appropriate. Is it really, really too much to ask media professionals analyzing the race for the most powerful position in the world to do the same?
Posted by: lt | Jun 8, 2008 8:13:08 AM
The comments to 3QD say much, much more than the articles on 3QD.
Fred: The fact that most men will naturally admire a good-looking woman has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the travesty of a national leader being reduced to her body in front of the nation. You cannot and will not provide a decent argument linking these two ideas.
Posted by: Nick Smyth | Jun 8, 2008 11:07:23 PM
It, was it Oprah or the View that commented on Barack Obama's "sexiness"?
Posted by: Anno | Jun 10, 2008 11:56:16 AM
Anno,
I wouldn't consider any of the personalities on those shows to be "media professionals analyzing the race", if, by that, you mean journalists.
Both programs are the equivalent of check-out-counter mags that have little to do with serious journalism (not that much of what we find in TV "news" is either).
Posted by: Jim | Jun 11, 2008 10:16:00 AM
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