July 31, 2006
Open Letter from American Jews
TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION:
On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more urgent.
Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, whatever the provocation.
But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster.
In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral and irresponsible.
We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians and between Israelis and the neighboring nations."
We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations.
Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world.
Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere.
Click here to sign the petition. [Thanks to Jonathan Kramnick, and also Alan Sokal.]
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Comments
More peace in our times nonsense. In fact, Hamas and Hezbollah are on record as calling for the destruction of Israel. When you take land in warfare, you do not give it back till a settlement has taken placez. NONE has as yet and the Arab League et al refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist. The peace appeals of Jews in Israel and elsewhere have not stopped kidnappings and suicide bombings and rocket atacks...
Whereas Jews worldwide are talking about giving this and that and ending this and that, do you see Arabs or Muslims elsewhere also on record for similar peace activities?
Posted by: fred lapides | Jul 31, 2006 7:36:13 AM
fred you are a complete idiot. most of the arab states HAVE signed peace treaties with israel. israel is one perpetuating terrorism in the region. atleast get your facts and figures straight before giving stupid moronic comments.
Posted by: susan | Jul 31, 2006 9:42:58 AM
It is perhaps not helpful to tell Fred he is a complete idiot, even if he is. And it's simply wrong to claim that Israel alone perpetuates terrorism in the region. The only thing that's clear is that all hands are filthy, except the dead civilian innocents on both sides. The NY Times (I think) published an interesting article recently on retaliation--on the perception of appropriate response. We human beings reliably perceive our own pain as greater than the pain of others, and we retaliate accordingly: TIT for tat, and TAT for tit.
But there are at least two incontrovertible facts in this latest disaster: Hezbollah is not a state entity, and negotiation of ceasefire with Siniora means nothing to Nasrallah; Israel's brutal response to the kidnapping of two of its soldiers is vastly out of proportion, and deepens the tragedy of the region.
It is fair to say, too, that Nasrallah is victorious, that Israel has foolishly played into his hands, and that Bush and Rice and their cracked foreign policy fail the world again. And again and again.
Nasrallah is freshly relevant. Hezbollah is the revitalized hero of the anti-Israeli muslim world. And Israel is bloody and villainous.
What if they hadn't retaliated? Wouldn't it be nice to know, instead of wonder?
Posted by: Jed | Jul 31, 2006 12:00:41 PM
Jed is definitely on to something in his overall analysis and in suggesting that describing Fred as an idiot is NOT the most productive way to go about things.
Similarly, the real and most telling arguments for Israel to change its strategy is not based on morality, ethics, or arguments about who is "right" and who is "wrong" but on what works. And from the start I couldn't see a scenario in which bombing civilians in Lebanon was going to help Israeli security.
So Fred, while I agree with you that Israel has gotten a bad deal, that's irrelevant. The world is a cruel place and few care much about justice for Israel, (or for anyone else besides themselves, for that matter) so crying for fairness will get Israel nowhere. The only thing important is "what works" and what Israel is doing right now simply doesn't work.
I believe that Israel has commited a colossal blunder. The greater tragedy for all of us, Israel the most, is that it is being supported by the blunderers in our White House, who should be offering Israel "tough love" not foolish and very dangerous "hands off." George Bush is no friend of Israel.
Posted by: Man | Jul 31, 2006 3:46:05 PM
How awful, yet how predictable it is to see 'fellow' Jews, in the US, Europe and even here in Israel, publicly adopt the old ghetto habit of cringing apologetically before the Priest, the Cossack, the Nazi, or the terrorist. The Jew must not irritate the Gentile Lords of the Earth by raising a hand to defend himself, so these ghetto-minded 'kikes' tell us. The Jew must simply accept the fact that may be blown up on a bus, kidnapped and tortured and murdered, or bombed out of his home by some goy who happens to feel like it. If we keep our heads down, they may just go away, and if they don't, well, maybe someone will someday put up a memorial to us.
Maybe its not surprising that so many Jews, who have long been subject to so much hatred, develop such inverted and perverted self-hatred. They attack their own country, their own Israel (without which the jews of Europe and North Africa and of America would probably be dead) for killing a few decoy kids that Masralla keeps near his arsenals and headquarters. Hitler's last laugh, if you like.
Posted by: aguy109 | Jul 31, 2006 4:15:06 PM
I tend to agree with aguy109 as to the simpering naivte of the Jews in the Open Letter (above.) I don't think they have grasped the evil of Hizbollah and its supporters so they prattle on about Israeli and US morality.
Nothing in my earlier comment about the apparent stupidity of Israeli policy should be read as support in any way for the ignorant Jews who crow to the world in their own act of moral vanity -- "We are pure!" -- that it is all the fault of Israel.
Ironically, while I agree with the letter's conclusion that "Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere" I find the tone of the letter childish and blind.
Posted by: Man | Jul 31, 2006 5:47:43 PM
as an israeli jew i always liked the courage of armchair zionists of the type of lapidus aguy10 etc. whose ideal modern jew is a blond nazi. zevel galuti hayitem ve-tisharu.
Posted by: yoram, haifa | Jul 31, 2006 7:10:07 PM
How to respond to Jews like aguy and Man? Should I bother.... ok, well... It is dangerous and wrong to claim that the murderous and barbarous actions of the Israeli army are some sort belated retaliation for the Holocaust. Hezbollah's initial aggression was wrong, but it pales in comparison to Israel's response, a response that will only create future generations of suicide bombers. I'll take ghetto "kike" Judaism--citizens of the world and people of the book that we were--over ersatz machismo and compensatory slaughter any day. You don't own the Holocaust. My forbears died in the camps too. It sickens me that their deaths are used as justification for the wholesale annihilation of innocents today. For shame.
Posted by: Jonathan | Jul 31, 2006 8:42:57 PM
Jonathan, Please go back and re-read what I wrote before you criticize me. Your comments have nothing to do with what I said.
•••
As an aside, "yoram, haifa" is a phony email.
Posted by: Man | Aug 1, 2006 1:03:19 AM
Jonathan,
I re-read what I wrote and what you wrote in response and I even more strongly suggest that you learn to read. You are making the same mistake made by the current government of Israel: reacting emotionally without fully understanding what is in front of you.
Posted by: Man | Aug 1, 2006 10:56:55 AM
Man,
I was responding to you and aguy at once, something you invited by "agreeing" with him about what you call "the simpering naivte [sic] of the Jews in the Open Letter." The epithet "simpering" struck me as a particularly vile echo of aguy's criticism of "ghetto kikes." But in fairness, having read over your two posts, I'm not sure if I quite understand the nuance of your position and its difference from his. Feel free to clarify if you would like.
Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 1, 2006 11:07:39 AM
My sympathies are with Israel. Keep in mind that the Hezbolla forces are dressed as civilians, are hiding amongst civilians, firing rockets from civilian areas in southern Lebanon, into civilian areas in Israel. In other words they are barbarians who, in the name of their so-called God, are violating the most fundamental rules of war.
Sure, the Palestinians are victims, though not of Israel, but of Europe; it was European anti-Semitism that drove European Jewry out of Europe, and it was European "statesmanship" that gave somebody else's land away as a homeland of the Jews.
Westerners of European descent who are looking for the guilty party should look in the mirror and, if they want to contribute to peace in the Middle East (at some far off date) admit their collective culpability and prepare to compensate the Palestinian community if, and when, that community is prepared to honor a permanent peace deal with Israel.
What kind of compensation? Well, it would have to include free and universal healthcare, public education, and enough investment over a generation to insure a Western standard of living for every Palestinian refugee willing to settle in the West Bank -- and its continuance would have to be contingent on Palestinian compliance with the terms of any final settlement agreement with Israel. How much would it cost? Roughly $500 billion over 20 years, which would be chump change for the European community, certainly in comparison with the alternatives.
Fat chance, you say? Yes, fat chance. You might as well wish for the end of Islam and the second coming of Christ.
In the meantime, let Israel flatten every rocket launching site in Lebanon and do whatever is necessary to insure her own survival in that God-forsaken corner of the world.
Posted by: Luke Lea | Aug 1, 2006 11:41:25 AM
The following article is not too informative but important because it is written by
a former American policy maker, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration.
July 22, 2006
The Shame of Being an American
by Paul Craig Roberts
Gentle reader, do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing
in southern Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear
out. Israel then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing
villagers. That way there is no one to come back and nothing to which
to return, making it easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as
Israel has been stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by
Israel's attacks on civilian residential districts are children? That
is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for
the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and
those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all
the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel
misses Hezbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that
Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS.
Don't be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less
evil than the puppet master?
Of course, you don't know these things, because the US print and TV
media do not report them.
Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked
every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians. Bush
has told the UN "NO." Bush has told the European Union "NO." Bush has
told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister "NO." Twice. Bush is
very proud of his firmness. He is enjoying Israel's rampage and wishes
he could do the same thing in Iraq.
Does it make you a Proud American that "your" president gave Israel
the green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from
Israeli shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of
Beirut and throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food
production and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on
roads, on every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life
depends? Are you a Proud American? Or are you an Israeli puppet?
On July 20, "your" House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor of
Israel's massive war crimes in Lebanon. Not content with making every
American complicit in war crimes, "your" House of Representatives,
according to the Associated Press, also "condemns enemies of the
Jewish state."
Who are the "enemies of the Jewish state"?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish
state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish
state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish
state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state. They are
Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach
their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads
through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only. They
are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant
Zionist "settlers" under the protection of the Israeli army who beat
and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They
are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes
because they will be murdered by Israeli "settlers."
The Palestinians who confront Israeli evil are called "terrorists."
When Bush forced free elections on Palestine, the people voted for
Hamas. Hamas is the organization that has stood up to Israel. This
means, of course, that Hamas is evil, anti-Semitic, un-American and
terrorist. The US and Israel responded by cutting off all funds to the
new government. Democracy is permitted only if it produces the results
Bush and Israel want.
Israelis never practice terror. Only those who are in Israel's way are
terrorists.
Another enemy of the Jewish state is Hezbollah. Hezbollah is a militia
of Shi'ite Muslims created in 1982 when Israel first invaded Lebanon.
During this invasion the great moral Jewish state arranged for the
murder of refugees in refugee camps. The result of Israel's atrocities
was Hezbollah, which fought the Israeli Army, defeated it, and drove
it out of Lebanon. Today Hezbollah not only defends southern Lebanon
but also provides social services such as orphanages and medical care.
To cut to the chase, the enemies of the Jewish state are any Muslim
country not ruled by an American puppet friendly to Israel. Egypt,
Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the oil emirates have sided with Israel
against their own kind, because they are dependent either on American
money or on American protection from their own people. Sooner or later
these totally corrupt governments that do not represent the people
they rule will be overthrown. It is only a matter of time.
Indeed Bush and Israel may be hastening the process in their frantic
effort to overthrow the governments of Syria and Iran. Both
governments have more popular support than Bush has, but the White
House Moron doesn't know this. The Moron thinks Syria and Iran will be
"cakewalks" like Iraq, where ten proud divisions of the US military
are tied down by a few lightly armed insurgents.
If you are still a Proud American, consider that your pride is doing
nothing good for Israel or for America.
On July 20 when "your" House of Representatives, following "your" US
Senate, passed the resolution in support of Israel's war crimes, the
most powerful lobby in Washington, the American Israeli Public Affairs
Committee (AIPAC), quickly got out a press release proclaiming "The
American people overwhelming support Israel's war on terrorism and
understand that we must stand by our closest ally in this time of
crisis."
The truth is that Israel created the crisis by invading a country with
a pro-American government. The truth is that the American people do
not support Israel's war crimes, as the CNN quick poll results make
clear and as was made clear by callers into C-Span.
Despite the Israeli spin on news provided by US "reporting," a
majority of Americans do not approve of Israeli atrocities against
Lebanese civilians. Hezbollah is located in southern Lebanon. If
Israel is targeting Hezbollah, why are Israeli bombs falling on
northern Lebanon? Why are they falling on Beirut? Why are they falling
on civilian airports? On schools and hospitals?
Now we arrive at the main point. When the US Senate and House of
Representatives pass resolutions in support of Israeli war crimes and
condemn those who resist Israeli aggression, the Senate and House
confirm Osama bin Laden's propaganda that America stands with Israel
against the Arab and Muslim world.
Indeed, Israel, which has one of the world's largest per capita
incomes, is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. Many believe that
much of this "aid" comes back to AIPAC, which uses it to elect "our"
representatives in Congress.
This perception is no favor to Israel, whose population is declining,
as the smart ones have seen the writing on the wall and have been
leaving. Israel is surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims who
are being turned into enemies of Israel by Israel's actions and
inhumane policies.
The hope in the Muslim world has always been that the United States
would intervene in behalf of compromise and make Israel realize that
Israel cannot steal Palestine and turn every Palestinian into a
refugee.
This has been the hope of the Arab world. This is the reason our
puppets have not been overthrown. This hope is the reason America
still had some prestige in the Arab world.
The House of Representatives resolution, bought and paid for by AIPAC
money, is the final nail in the coffin of American prestige in the
Middle East. It shows that America is, indeed, Israel's puppet, just
as Osama bin Laden says, and as a majority of Muslims believe.
With hope and diplomacy dead, henceforth America and Israel have only
tooth and claw. The vaunted Israeli army could not defeat a rag tag
militia in southern Lebanon. The vaunted US military cannot defeat a
rag tag, lightly armed insurgency drawn from a minority of the
population in Iraq, insurgents, moreover, who are mainly engaged in
civil war against the Shi'ite majority.
What will the US and its puppet master do? Both are too full of hubris
and paranoia to admit their terrible mistakes. Israel and the US will
either destroy from the air the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon,
Palestine, Syria, and Iran so that civilized life becomes impossible
for Muslims, or the US and Israel will use nuclear weapons to
intimidate Muslims into acquiescence to Israel's desires.
Muslim genocide in one form or another is the professed goal of the
neoconservatives who have total control over the Bush administration.
Neocon godfather Norman Podhoretz has called for World War IV (in
neocon thinking WW III was the Cold War) to overthrow Islam in the
Middle East, deracinate the Islamic religion and turn it into a
formalized, secular ritual.
Rumsfeld's neocon Pentagon has drafted new US war doctrine that
permits pre-emptive nuclear attack on non-nuclear states.
Neocon David Horowitz says that by slaughtering Palestinian and
Lebanese civilians, "Israel is doing the work of the rest of the
civilized world," thus equating war criminals with civilized men.
Neocon Larry Kudlow says that "Israel is doing the Lord's work" by
murdering Lebanese, a claim that should give pause to Israel's
Christian evangelical supporters. Where does the Lord Jesus say, "go
forth and murder your neighbors so that you may steal their lands"?
The complicity of the American public in these heinous crimes will
damn America for all time in history.
Posted by: maniza | Aug 1, 2006 12:04:07 PM
The continual reference to Israel as "the Jewish state" pretty much negates whatever probative value Roberts's letter might have.
Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 1, 2006 12:18:27 PM
Does not Israel refer to itself as a Jewish State? The writer may be following the the speeches and statements of all of Israel's statesmen past and recent. Please also review the Israeli government's own argument for not considering the idea even of a State that would include both Palestinians and Jews--their arguement being that the demographic reality would change the nature of Israel and threaten its identity and laws as a Jewish state. Can you please correct this perception?
Posted by: maniza | Aug 1, 2006 2:59:26 PM
Maniza,
Of course Israel refers to itself as a Jewish state, as Iran for example refers to itself as an Islamic state. But its Jewishness matters not a wit in its current and indefensible assault on Lebanon. (Mel Gibson's opinion notwithstanding.) Note the way in which Roberts's rhetoric works. He quotes an AP article that refers to a House resolution on Israel as "the Jewish state" (language that may or may not be in the resolution itself) and then repeats the phrase as a kind of incantation. The rhetoric is quite simply anti-semitic and thus to my mind quite simply negates whatever probative value there might be in his letter.
Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 1, 2006 4:13:58 PM
You're not serious with your response are you? What does Mel Gibson have to do with this? And yes, Iran refers to itself as an Islamic state, you're right. But what's your point? Are you saying that Israel refers to itself as a Jewish State because Iran refers to itself as an Islamic state? You say its Jewishness matters not a wit in the current situation--but Hizbollah is constantly referred to as an Islamic terrorist organization aligned with Islamic Iran--not defined as Lebanese even--Hizbollah's shi'a ness, Islamic ness seems to matter a whole lot to the way things are analysed, are you taking issue with that--is that not an issue and anti something um---anti semitic perhaps? C'mon take another attempt at explaining to me why no one else can refer to Israel as a Jewish State, and referring to it as a Jewish state is only Israel's right and for everyone else its anti semitic to do so.
By the way I totally agree what's happening is Lebanon has a lot more to do with the hubris of unchecked dangerous men rather then anything else.
Posted by: maniza | Aug 1, 2006 6:26:50 PM
Maniza,
Let me see if I can be a bit more clear. My point was that Roberts's rhetoric was quite clearly anti-semitic in the incantatory way he used the phrase "Jewish state." There is nothing wrong with the phrase itself. Everything depends on the context of use. His repeating of the phrase was designed to call attention to the supposed Jewishness of Israel in the context of its atrocities and for us to draw a connection between the two: i.e. it is not Israel that is doing the slaughter; it is Jews.
As a matter of clarification, let me add that Israel is a Jewish state insofar as it was established after the Holocaust as a refuge for Jews. It is not a Jewish state in the sense in which Iran is an Islamic state. Israel is a secular state, with independent, non-religious rule of law. Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. are religious states insofar as there is no clear distinction between the church and state.
Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 2, 2006 9:24:02 AM
Thank you Jonathan. So Israel is a secular State? As a matter of further clarification can you help me understand the secular-ness of Israel's arguement when it justifies its right to that particular land - as its Biblical right to that land? As opposed to say the vaste open spaces of Montana.
And also can you clarify for me Israel's secularness with its concept of Aliyah (the right of every Jew on the planet to return to Israel. Is it enshrined in the constitution?)---as opposed to not allowing Palestinans the right of return to their homes. (Palestinans who were forcibly and violently driven out of what is now Israel, driven from their lands and homes as opposed to those who sold their lands) .
I question your concept of Israel's secularness because all others who are opposing Israel's policies-are defined as ONLY motivated by religion, extremism, bigotry and racism.
Posted by: maniza | Aug 2, 2006 9:56:15 AM
Maniza,
I take it you grant my point that Roberts's rhetoric is anti-semitic.
Allow me to clafify Israel's secularity. Israel is secular in the very important sense that it upholds the difference between church and state. The Torah is not the basis for law, unlike in many of the Islamic states which base their laws on one or another intepretation of the Koran. Also, Jewish theologians and rabbis have no ex-officio role in the government, again a hallmark of a secular polity. Some Orthodox Israelis believe that there is a religious mandate for holding onto the occupied territories, but that is not the official position, even among the right wing.
The very right of return--Aliyah--is in fact defined in secular terms as the right of Jewish people as a people not as a faith to become Israeli citizens. It was established in the aftermath of the Holocaust. Interestingly, the right of return uses a secular and political definition of who is a Jew. The law adopted Hitler's definition from the Nuremberg Laws (one grandparent is Jewish) rather than the typical religious definition (your mother is Jewish). If Hitler would have considered you a Jew, then so does the state of Israel, the point being that state should be a refuge in future Holocausts.
None of this is to defend the ongoing atrocities in Lebanon, or the continuing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. But to say that Israel's actions are based in religion, bigotry and racism is itself bigoted and racist.
Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 2, 2006 10:26:12 AM
Jonathan, I will grant you this, that I did go back and reread the article for the 3rd time. And no, I don't grant you the slur you attribute to it. The author is responding to and using the terminology used by the House of Representatives and that of the Israeli Government. And by the way all of your responses to me--refer to Israel as a Jewish Sate while you explain and define secularity to me.
I understand from your second paragraph (technically 3rd) and here I quote you "Aliyah--is in fact defined in secular terms as the right of Jewish people as a people not as a faith to become Israeli citizens"
Would this mean therefore that being Jewish is defined by the State of Israel as based on race rather then religion? Therefore the word "secular" for you means "based on race".
And you didn't clarify whether "Aliyah" is enshrined in the constitution. Is it? If not then how is it exercised if not by the constitution?
By the way your sentence that if Hitler had considered me a a Jew then so would the State of Israel. Can you unpack the logic of this--and see where that leads you? If I do it for you--- I fear you will shout anti-semitism.
Probably Hitler would have considered me a kissing cousin of Jews. The Aliyah doesn't allow for cousins does it? By the way were any other Peoples destroyed during the Holocaust based on their race? Or is that also an anti-semetic thing to raise?
And I take it from your last paragraph that the term "racist, bigoted and anti semetic" for you means to question any of the actions of Israel and its usage of the terms rights, secular, religion and race.
Posted by: maniza | Aug 2, 2006 11:19:15 AM
Maniza,
I take it then that you agree with me about the important distinction between church and state. Let me repeat myself on several other points:
1) The phrase "Jewish State" in Roberts's letter is not taken from the House Resolution it's taken from the AP article and then repeated over and again in the rhetorical style of an incantation, as if to suggest there is something Jewish about the atrocities in Lebanon.
2) My point about Hitler was very specific and historical. The law of return deliberately used Hitler's definition of who is a Jew from the Nuremberg Laws. If you had one grandparent who was Jewish then the Nazis considered you a Jew. The law of return allows anyone with one grandparent who is Jewish to "return." Think about it.
3) I precisely did not mean that it's racist or anti-semitic to criticize Israel. Have you read anything I've written here? I've written over and again that the current invasion of Lebanon is indefensible.
Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 2, 2006 11:37:33 AM
Yes, the invasion of Lebanon is indefensible.
You make it sound as though we were arguing about the distinction between Church and State. No, we were not. We were arguing about whether Israel is a Jewish State and calling it a Jewish State (in "a kind of incantation") is tantamount to anti semitism.
You have not been able to make the distintion of seperation between religion and state when it comes to Israel. You haven't made that point at all. Quite the opposite. In fact all you've done is argued why Israel is exempt from this distinction. And this special exemption should be seen as being secular and specific due to historical reasons.
"Repeating yourself" for my benefit (second paragraph), about anti semitism--does it not take on a "kind of incantation" of itself?
And as for your providing me with a justification for the right to return exclusively for one group---based on Hitler's definition, well, well------you think about it.
Posted by: maniza | Aug 2, 2006 3:53:44 PM
dude, you abrahamites really need a quaalude. seriously.
Posted by: CR | Aug 2, 2006 4:37:21 PM
Let's not kid ourselves. On all sides, it is about religion, it is about race and it is about the ownership of real estate. It is also about having or lacking the patronage of the world's only super power which has forever lost the moral right to be an honest broker. And above all, it is a tragic, horrible mess.
I am not remotely related to anyone in this region by race or religion. So I find myself unafraid to say my mind without being labeled anti- this or anti-that. But like everyone else in the world (except a handful of interested parties), I am appalled. I put this up on my own blog a few days ago. The irony is that it was originally written nearly three years ago but could well have been written yesterday, today or tomorrow. Makes little difference, such is the intractable nature of the problem and the pitiful lack of leadership on the world stage. I wrote this somewhat in jest - but mostly in utter despair.
Posted by: Ruchira | Aug 2, 2006 5:00:01 PM
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