February 13, 2006
Mohammed Cartoon Madness and Understanding
Imagine this: a small group of white supremacists collects in Strauss Park near where I live in New York City, and then marches up Broadway, past 125th Street, into the heart of Harlem, all the while chanting anti-African-American slogans of the vilest kind. They have a permit from the city for their march. They use the n-word, they call black people monkeys, they taunt them with reminders that their ancestors were slaves owned by the white people's own ancestors. They call black people lazy, stupid, and repeat every stereotypical epithet from the centuries of historical insult and injury to which African-Americans have been subjected in this country. An angry crowd gathers around the marchers. African-Americans yell some threats at the marchers, vowing to hurt them. Words are exchanged, and a shouting match erupts between one of the march leaders and a black man. The black man's mother is subjected to a particularly repulsive and obscene insult by the white man. Suddenly, the black man cannot take it anymore, and lashes out at the marcher, striking him down to the ground and kicking him until he is seriously injured. A few other young and hot-blooded black men jump into the fray and attack some of the marchers. The black men are arrested for assault and battery and taken to jail.
In an editorial, the New York Times very rightly blames the black men for responding to a legal expression of free speech with unnecessary violence, and calls for them to be punished severely. Articles in papers all over the country express the ultimate importance of free speech for all citizens, and correctly remind us that no matter how offensive we may find what people say, we must never respond with violence. They correctly tell us that we must not be cowed by the threats and irrational behavior of the African-Americans, who seemed unable to respond to words with words of their own, and instead resorted to threats of violence and even real violence. All over the world, decent people who wish to live in peace with all races wonder what it is about African-Americans that makes them prone to violence, and unable to engage in rational debate. Those who are particularly fair-minded, realize that it must have been the leaders of the African-Americans who manipulated them for their own ends. Others make the helpful suggestion that it is wrong to condemn all African-Americans and that it is only a few extremist elements among them that resort to violence whenever they see something that they find insulting. President Bush tells us that most African-Americans are peace-loving people, after all. Still others explain that it is poverty which has driven African-Americans to such violent behavior. A white professor at Harvard warns of an imminent and inevitable clash of black and white civilizations. Many black intellectuals also have the courage to condemn the violence of their people. Everyone reasonable agrees that the most important thing to come out of this is that free speech is something that must be protected at all cost. It is what makes us a civilized people.
What's wrong with this picture? This is not just a rhetorical question. It is something to think about very carefully and deeply. One of the reasons that I am writing this (other than Robin's urging me to do it) is that in the last few days, I have received quite a few emails from 3 Quarks readers asking me to explain what it is about Islam that makes it so intolerant and irrational. These are well-meaning individuals, hoping to figure out a way to avoid what many have come to see as the inevitable "clash of civilizations". How should they be engaging the Islamic world when it appears to them so incapable of reasoned debate and discussion? They mean no insult, but I still wonder if they wrote to their black friends during the Rodney King riots, asking them to explain why black people behave so irrationally? No, they didn't. Why didn't they? Because while they do not give sanction to criminal and violent acts of looting and vandalism, they can understand how a collection of historically oppressed people can be driven to irrational rage by repeated acts of injustice and caricature. Look, one can say, "It was wrong of Adam to slap Bob," but no one says, "I don't understand why Adam had to stand up for his mother, and slap Bob." As Edward Said said in a different context, to understand something is not to condone it.
But Muslims have resorted to death-threats against the publishers of the cartoons. Yes, unfortunately they have. Did you know that Michael Moore regularly receives death threats from right-wing nuts? Do you know that the Dixie Chicks have received countless death-threats from American patriots? Do you know how many death-threats Martin Scorsese received from Christians for making The Last Temptation of Christ? Did you know there were Christian bomb-threats to movie theaters right here in New York City that played the film? Well, there were. Is this, then, a defense of the Muslims who have made such threats? No, it emphatically is not. It is also not an attempt to say that there was anything like the globe-spanning demonstrations and death-threats that Muslims are engaging in now, in any of the cases that I mention. What I wish to say is that while there is a difference between those cases and what is happening in the Muslim world right now, it is a difference of degree, not a difference of kind. Despite their crusades and holy wars of the past, most Westerners do not any longer have an attachment to religion strong enough to easily give up their lives for it, and this is a good thing in my view. But it is not a good thing to forget what such an emotion can be like. Others still have it and one must deal with that reality.
What is of importance to understand here is that (however unfortunate this may be) one of the few remaining sources of dignity for many in the largely impotent world of Islam, unable to compete militarily or economically with the West and unable to remain free of interference from the West because of the curse of holding much of the world's oil-supplies, is their religion. This is the last redoubt of their pride. And this is why they lash out so angrily against what is correctly perceived by them as a deliberate provocation and insult to their religion by their erstwhile colonizers and oppressors via crude and offensive caricature. Those of you who cannot stop yourself from loudly and continually proclaiming the right of newspapers to publish whatever they want (no one serious is really arguing with you there), please take a few minutes to condemn the cheap provocation of the Danish newspaper which published the revolting cartoon of Mohammad as a terrorist. If the New York Times publishes a vulgar and racist cartoon about African-Americans, for example, my first reaction will not be to proclaim that they have a right to do so, which of course they do. My reaction might be to boycott the paper and otherwise bring attention to what they are doing. Do this, condemn the racism of the Danish newspaper, then lecture me about free speech. If the Muslim world saw large-scale Western condemnations of the cartoons and demonstrations in which white Christian Danes stood shoulder to shoulder with their Muslim fellow-citizens in protesting these racist insults, it would have a much needed calming effect and demonstrate that the Danes truly are a well-meaning people. Instead, the endless prattling-on about principles of free speech and how Islam doesn't care about it, only serves to confirm to many in that part of the world that the West sees all of the vast and diverse landscape of Islam only in terms of crude generalities of contemptuous enmity.
What I have written so far leaves unanswered the following question: what about the silencing of dissent within the world of Islam (as well as dissenting views on Islam, within and without) that giving in to threats from religious zealots may result in? This is a serious and genuine concern. Well, let me tell you something personal. One of the formative events of my mental life occurred on Valentine's day, 1989: the Ayatollah Khomeini delivered his infamous fatwa asking for Salman Rushdie to be murdered. Having grown up a Shia Muslim, this shocked and saddened me beyond what I can describe. As a South Asian, Rushdie's writings were a great source of pleasure and pride to me, and perhaps even life-changing for me, in the sense that I developed an addiction to literature at least partly through my enjoyment of Rushdie. I supported Rushdie wherever and whenever I could, as vociferously as I could, and still do. (In a private act of protest against those who failed to stand up for him, I even stopped reading books by John Le Carre and Roald Dahl, both of whom suggested that Rushdie got what was coming to him.) But that situation was different: a religious leader and a head of state had incited people to murder, and a whole country had gone along. No leader or country, to my knowledge, has done that in the present case. Of course, one must condemn anyone who calls for death or violence because of some stupid cartoons. One could also try to understand the historical and current sources of Muslim rage. That is the only way that we can encourage them to move toward more confident and more open and more tolerant societies. One could say much more about every part of this, but I must stop somewhere. More discussion is needed and one must deal with a real and dangerous situation and try to defuse it. But the media have more serious and pressing issues to discuss, like this from Slate: Where Do Muslim Protesters Get Their Danish Flags?
My other columns at 3 Quarks Daily:
A Moral Degeneracy
In the Peace Corps' Shadow
Richard Dawkins, Relativism and Truth
Reexamining Religion
Posthumously Arrested for Assaulting Myself
Be the New Kinsey
General Relativity, Very Plainly
Regarding Regret
Three Dreams, Three Athletes
Rocket Man
Francis Crick's Beautiful Mistake
The Man With Qualities
Special Relativity Turns 100
Vladimir Nabokov, Lepidopterist
Stevinus, Galileo, and Thought Experiments
Cake Theory and Sri Lanka's President
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» Provocation all the way down from Majikthise
Danish cartoon scandal is a shameful manufactured controversy. A petty racist publicity stunt was hijacked by successively larger and more influential opportunists until it because an international incident. It all started on September 30, 2005 when De... [Read More]
Tracked on Feb 12, 2006 3:50:42 PM
» A cosmic ideological void from locussolus
1. This is old, but it's not going anywhere. 2. Abbas Raza on the cartoon madness and understanding. Also, metamadness. 3. And: sometimes even egomaniacs speak the truth.... [Read More]
Tracked on Feb 14, 2006 12:10:33 AM
» A cosmic ideological void from locussolus
1. This is old, but it's not going anywhere. 2. Abbas Raza on the cartoon madness and understanding. Also, metamadness. 3. And: sometimes even egomaniacs speak the truth. (This is as close as I've come to required reading.)... [Read More]
Tracked on Feb 14, 2006 12:11:55 AM






















Comments
Superb, Abbas.
Posted by: HMN | Feb 12, 2006 2:49:11 AM
The problem I see with the analogy is the the failure to distinguish between race and religion. When one attacks Islam they are attacking a religion when one attacks African-Americans they are attacking a race. A person can choose their religion they can't choose their race.
Posted by: Norman Jenson | Feb 12, 2006 3:45:43 AM
Norm,
The point I was trying to make is that when a historically mistreated group erupts in irrational rage, while not condoning violence, we can (and do) try to understand their reaction in as charitable a manner as possible. We also regularly make allowances for the sensitivity of groups than are in assymetrical relations of power with others.
You can recreate my example substituting a historically oppressed religion for African-Americans, and nothing in what I am trying to say really changes.
And the idea that most people are "free" to change their religion makes it sound like people are presented with a menu of possible religions when they reach adulthood, never before having had any religion thrust on them, or some such thing. As you know (we are both big enough Dawkins fans!), people are conditioned and brainwashed from childhood into believing their parents' religion, and the vast majority will stick with it for reasons far too complicated to go into here (but see my review of Dennett's new book on religion on Monday).
To tell the truth, I am not exactly sure why you feel that being able to choose your religion makes a difference to what I am saying.
Posted by: Abbas Raza | Feb 12, 2006 4:14:10 AM
Thank you for this outstanding post.
Consider yourself blogged again.
Posted by: Hootsbuddy | Feb 12, 2006 6:24:33 AM
This is an exceptionally well-reasoned, thoughtful and brilliant analysis of the sad situation, Abbas. I think your analogies are right on target. Thanks for clarifying several issues for me which were making me uncomfortable about the the various issues here. Your timely reminder of Said's "to understand is not to condone" remark suddenly put a number of things in perspective. You have an extraordinary mind which can incise a problem with a laser-like precision and reach the heart of the matter effortlessly. Few people are so blessed. I am doubly glad that you use this mind for so many good causes:
"I count him a worthy man who inhabits a higher sphere of thought, into which other men rise with labor and difficulty; he has but to open his eyes to see things in a true light and in large relations, while they must make painful corrections and keep a vigilant eye on many sources of error".
Keep up your late night reveries.
Aps.
Posted by: Azra Raza | Feb 12, 2006 7:25:11 AM
The problem with the analogy is proportion. Anti-black comments, cartoons and texts are circulated daily. As are anti-semetic, anti-muslim, and any number of other offensive images. Most on the scale equal or in excess of the original images. In the case of anti-semetic texts, the same countries that are the source of some of the most vociferous protest, officially sanctioned sources are 'stiking back' in-kind by expressing prejudice against a group that had nothing to do with the source of the controversy. To extend your analogy, the Amsterdam News would have to organize a Million Man March against Asians, replete with the same violent expression of racism and hate.
Posted by: MR | Feb 12, 2006 9:44:06 AM
"And the idea that most people are "free" to change their religion makes it sound like people are presented with a menu of possible religions when they reach adulthood, never before having had any religion thrust on them, or some such thing."
You should be free to change your religion. Unfortunately it is very easy to convert to Islam, but it is not so easy to convert away from Islam without being ostracised. This makes me extremely uneasy about Islam (and any other religion that shares that attribute).
The other issue issue I have Islam as it commonly practiced is the strict enforcement that those who wish to marry a Muslim must convert to Islam.
Do Muslims believe in free will? I feel that religion is a personal matter and that you should only convert to religion because you have faith in that religion, not because it is convenient. And if after having converted to Islam or whatever religion, you lose your faith or you disagree with the teachings then you be free to give up that religion, without being treatest as if you committed treason.
These properties of Islam disables the market place of ideas, and potentially allows a dangerous system of values to remain in place, despite strong opposition from other members of the community.
I agree that the original cartoons were in poor taste. However, I defend the right of newspapers to publish images of your prophet as and when they see fit. Particularly in a place like Denmark, which last time I looked is a secular non-muslim country. It is not for Muslims to enforce their taboos in the public space of such countries.
And until Saudi Arabia allows non-Muslims to promote their faiths openly in Mecca, then I really have trouble listening to Muslim complaints that they are being treated unfairly.
Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Islam is still merely a set of ideas and beliefs that can be openly criticised (and yes even ridiculed). Doing so is not the ethical equivalent of discrimitating against someone due to the colour of their skin. Your argument, although well written, simply does not hold in my view.
Posted by: Jack | Feb 12, 2006 9:44:36 AM
"largely impotent world of Islam, unable to compete militarily or economically with the West and unable to remain free of interference from the West because of the curse of holding much of the world's oil-supplies, is their religion"
Really? Even in Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Pakistan, and India?
Posted by: Lars | Feb 12, 2006 9:58:47 AM
What's the "West." It seems to be some nebulous scapegoat. Do you mean countries west of where Semitic languages are spoken? Countries that have non-Muslim majorities? Please clarify!
I'm not sure I agree with your analogy with Americans of African ancestry. Isn't religion a choice, ultimately? I doubt it's hard-wired.
Posted by: CR | Feb 12, 2006 10:44:45 AM
I find your essay very well written and makes a very important point. If we want to resolve a conflict we must first understand the basis of the conflict, which is what you have tried to do by 'trying to understand the reason for the Muslim rage', not to condone their actions, but to let their anger subside and then reason with them to set standards of conduct. Freedom of speech versus sensitivity to each other's point of view. We must find a balance. The current hard stance taken by all sides is an example of zero-sum game in which only one side can win. This in practice is unlikely to happen and if we wish to progress where peoples and nations can resolve their conflicts through dialogue, as happens in western democracies, then we have to turn this into a non-zero-sum situation, which can result in a peaceful world, a win-win for all, not win-loose.
I did not find in your article any attempt to justify or defend Islam. As a matter of fact your personal example of the Khomeini Fatwa against Rushdie makes it clear that you have been disappointed by Muslim outburst as much as any one else. So the attempt by some commentators to ridicule Islam is not a case against what you wrote, it seems anger at the Muslim world, but irrelevant to the point you were making. I can not argue with his assessment of Islam with many ridiculous ideas and practices, but then I find all religions to be unreasoned articles of faith with many examples of ridiculousness. So the point of my comment is to say we must rise above religious beliefs and figure out how we will live in this world in peace. Once people have something to loose they become responsible, and so we must help the Muslim masses achieve economic progress, so they can join the modern world, and become its responsible citizens. If we keep supporting dictators in the name of stability then this is the result. The dictators manipulate thier masses in stupid issues like the Danish cartoons to divert them from demanding their rights which might topple those dictators.
Thank you for addressing this very sensitive issue which can be difficult to talk about. But you have reasoned with such cool and calm manner that it has emboldened others like myself to comment on it. The western civilization has too much to offer to the rest of the world, but it can not be done by making a caricature of them or ridiculing them. It needs a dialogue, and you have made an attempt at starting just that. Thanks again. One suggestion I have is to submit this article with minor modification to the New York Times Op-Ed pages. It needs wider distribution.
Posted by: Tasnim | Feb 12, 2006 10:54:23 AM
Thanks for this thoughtful write up Abbas. Here are four articles I would suggest to your readers on this ongoing issue. These deal with the following points:
-Why there is nothing in Islam that makes it irrational or intolerant. But there is plenty something in the mainstream Media and the current breast beaters of freedom of speech in the West that fashions Islam as being so.
-A few illiterate hill billies commiting violence do not define religion. They define themselves.
-Editorials/edtiors of major European newspapers seek to define more then themselves.
-The right to offend is a freedom, it is indeed art, but isn't the right to be offended a freedom?;
-Is the right to be offended the monopoly of just a few choice groups of the West?;
-And when an arguement of the right to be offended is put up, why is it that it is refuted as a clear support for violence?;
-What is the context particularly now in Denmark for these cartoons? Denmark does have a law on its books that bans offensive publications against "recognized" religions;
-the current right wing government in Denmark ran a campaign based on anti muslim slogans and messages;
-And European nations do have laws prohibiting messages subject to criminal proceedings. Messages that propagate certain ideologies and their symbols i.e. Nazism;
-Why the need for republication of these cartoons four months after they were published and went nearly ignored by the World?"
-Images of the prophet are not banned in Islam across the board. Persian art as a long tradition of lovingly rendering images of the prophet, His face rendered as light--or features considered graceful, generous, kind, nurturing, beautiful, young--and rooted in the feminine.
The Right To be Offended: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060227/younge
Rotten Judgement in the State of Denmark.
http://salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/02/08/denmark/index_np.html
"Cartoongate" and the Clash of Civilizations. More:http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2006/02/cartoongate.html
Why I am Offended by the Danish Cartoons of the Prophet
http://www.slate.com/id/2135499/
Posted by: Maniza | Feb 12, 2006 10:58:27 AM
Abbas Raza wrote:
"historically mistreated group"
Again, I find this a baffling statement. You might mean "at this historical moment." What about the roughly 700 years of Ottoman Empire, or 300 years of Mughal Empire, etc., where Islam seems to have been the religion of the state, or at least state officials in a very large area of the world.
A more thoughtful critique would appreciate the place of Islam in history, including its proselytism, colonialism, and empire building.
Posted by: lars | Feb 12, 2006 11:18:03 AM
Abbas,
Well said, my friend. Would that such thoughtfulness were more the rule than the exception.
That said, it has been the case, as far as I can tell, that a majority of decent people, including the Danish paper, have apologized for publishing things that were, if amatuerish, genuinely offensive. I haven't heard a great deal of defense of the cartoons themselves and much Western media has stood with the Muslim world in finding the cartoons offensive and unpublishable. But a small minority of Islamic extremists in various places have taken this as an opportunity to push the kind of clash of civilizations buttons that the rest of us find so repellent.
I'd say that we probably both agree that the best thing to come out of this would be for the West 'broadly speaking' to become more sensitive and aware of what it means to be a Muslim in the world today and, reciprocally, for the Muslim world to make a strong and definitive stand about who should and who shouldn't be representing Islam right now. I'm not sure I'm seeing enough of either approach at the moment, which, of course, best serves the extremists on both sides.
Crappy.
Posted by: morgan meis | Feb 12, 2006 11:31:21 AM
A person can choose their religion they can't choose their race.
I'm a non-believer, an atheist. I am so because all of my experience and senses and inferences tell me so. I believe it because to me it seems true, not exactly like, but in many ways like, I believe this keyboard is in front of me. I can simply "choose" to believe it's not there. I suspect for most believers the evidence for God/gods, and their conception of Him/Her/them is decisive if not overwhelmning. They can't choose to ignore it and remain committed to their senses of rationality, which also aren't choices.
I think we tend to think of religious belief in terms of choice because of the conversions, which I think are poorly understood. (Roads to Damascus don't seem really like you have a choice in the matter.)
Posted by: Robin | Feb 12, 2006 11:51:08 AM
I can simply "choose" to believe it's not there.
Should read "I can't . . "
Not enough coffee . . .
Posted by: Robin | Feb 12, 2006 11:57:17 AM
Abbas,
Thank you for the consideration of the strange and saddening events of the past few weeks. I would, however, have cautioned you against analogy as your presiding rhetorical strategy. Analogies are at best suggestive, but often teeter when pressed. In this case, your argument begins to wobble with the comparison of the printing of the cartoons to a white supremicist march through Harlem. In your account of the latter, the speech of the marchers has a kind of direct and unavoidable impact upon African-Americans. But the cartoons in question were printed in Denmark. The offended masses in the Islamic world learned of them only through the outrage of the clerics. Your analogy might work if the artists wheat pasted the cartoons on the streets of Tehran or Jidda. But they didn't. The outrage was mediated and indirect and stirred up by the agency of clerics and autocrats.
In other words, I think the situation calls for a more reasoned mode of argument than analogy, which is both logically crude (as you know as a philosopher) and sensationalist. People have the right to be offended, and likewise other people have the right to take offense at that offense. The state should not intervene against words or images. These seem to me to a bright line issues of what it means to live in a liberal democracy, and, as I've said before, I doubt you or I would want things otherwise. Beyond that, I find it difficult to understand the impact of this situation, or the international lines of force that shaped its beginning. I'd like more on that, but without sentiment.
Jonathan
Posted by: Jonathan | Feb 12, 2006 12:21:21 PM
To the list submitted by Maniza I will add one more: "Secular stupidity, religious wars." by Pat Buchanan, in todays syndicated column on this subject.
Posted by: Tasnim | Feb 12, 2006 12:24:24 PM
To clarify one sentence above, I should have written "Your analogy might have worked had the artists wheat-pasted the cartoons on the streets of Tehran or Jidda."
The offense was mediated by those in power who had an interest in people being offended. No?
Posted by: jonathan | Feb 12, 2006 12:50:42 PM
This is a brilliant essay.
My question would be whether you think that these propositions:
thousands of blacks are stupid monkeys
thousands of Jews drink Christian blood
thousands of Muslims are violent fanatics
are equally false.
Posted by: Bild | Feb 12, 2006 1:05:35 PM
Sorry, one more question.
Whether you think that the death threats received by Scorcese, D. Chicks and Moore on the one hand, and Theo van Gogh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, "Ibn Warraq," Christoph Luxenburg, Hitori Igarashi and Ettore Capriolo (Satanic Verses translators), on the other, are comparably likely to result in actual death. Probability could be gauged by degree of assigned police protection, as a proxy, or by actual deaths.
Posted by: Bild | Feb 12, 2006 1:09:59 PM
Your essay is beautifully written and provocative in the best sense of that word. But I must take issue with your contention that "a whole country had gone along" with Khomeini's fatwa. And taking issue here is not an excuse to be nitpicky, though it may very well seem so. To write that "a whole country had gone along" is to deploy the same old self-assured Orientalist assumptions about the Middle East as some sort of undifferentiated and seething landscape of despotism, on the one hand, and crypto-fascist submission to authority, on the other. A whole country did not go along. Iran and Iranians, like the rest of the world, are too complex to be summed up as such.
Posted by: setare | Feb 12, 2006 2:05:35 PM
It is difficult to change one's religion, it's impossible to change one's race. Ridiculing a person's religion is really no different than ridiculing their political views or other strongly held beliefs. Religions talk of toleration when what they really mean is respect, a respect I don't believe they deserve and one I'm not willing to give. How do you educate, how do you change views, if the topics are off-limits? What does sensitivity mean? Does it mean foregoing criticism when any criticism is viewed as being intolerant, when it's nothing more than not respecting irrationality. Do we give religion a special status that we're unwilling to give any other human institutions. I understand the point of not insulting a man with a gun in his hand especially if he's been mistreated in the past, and of understanding how he came to be in that position. It is also important to try and right the wrongs. The cartoons may have been an unnecessary provocation, but when making a documentary on the mistreatment of muslim women engenders similar responses, maybe it is worth making the point that free speech in a free society is not to be limited by threats of violence. The root of the problem it seems to me is the deference paid to religion. There should be no free passes just because someone labels their belief as sacred, where sacred means off limits.
I look forward to your review of Dennet's book. I'm impressed that not only have you found time to read it, but also review it. Have you considered conducting time management seminars?
Posted by: Norm | Feb 12, 2006 2:24:55 PM
Norm. Well said. I agree entirely. I would only extend that to all world religions, as I'm sure you would too.
Posted by: Jonathan | Feb 12, 2006 2:32:36 PM
"There should be no free passes just because someone labels their belief as sacred, where sacred means off limits."
Couldn't agree more.
Posted by: Robin | Feb 12, 2006 2:51:49 PM
I am still trying to digest the many thoughtful comments here, and thank all of you for taking the time to write, but I would like immediately to apologize to Setare for pointing to an unforgivable carelessness on my part in writing that "the whole country [of Iran] went along [with the calls for Rushdie's death]". I know very well that this is not true, and did not mean to demean the many decent Iranis who opposed the fatwa.
I must go and brave the blizzard that has enveloped NYC in an unbelievably beautiful blanket of snow on my Sunday chores now.
By the way, Norm. If you knew the disarray that my personal life is normally in, I assure you that I would be the last person you would credit with good time management. The secret to my quick review is that Dennett had a prepublication copy of his book sent to me by the publisher a month ago!
Posted by: Abbas Raza | Feb 12, 2006 3:09:25 PM
HOOOwaaah!!
Looks like you hit a home run!
Congrats and thanks again. I think you should follow up on that NY Times submission idea or something like it. He's right. This needs wider circulation.
Hoots
Posted by: Hootsbuddy | Feb 12, 2006 6:13:45 PM
Abbasi, I'm so glad I was told of your provocative and well written essay a little while ago! What a richly thoughtful and badly needed discussion you have instigated!
Bravo, and keep it going.
I also agree with the need for wider dissemination, but suggest that you find a way to incorporate some of the comments as well. Many have been very well informed and thoughtful, and have raised important aspects of the whole issue.
As always, I'm extremely proud to be your sister (glad I didn't have a choice!).
G6
Posted by: Ga | Feb 12, 2006 8:20:47 PM
I want there to be a right of freedom of expression. I do not want there to be a right of not being offended. So it is more important to me to defend the Danes than anything else. We should understand the causes of the Muslim response, but we shouldn't excuse it.
Posted by: jhn | Feb 13, 2006 12:23:49 AM
Here's my analogy of this: There is an individual who has been strapped down on a table in an amphitheater so that he cannot move his limbs. He's gagged so that he cannot speak. There is a huge audience watching him while a small crowd around the table presides over the administering of electric shocks which are at intervals applied to the strapped man's body------and every time his body convulses---the small crowd steps back in horror and screams----------see-------he is violent---------we told you he was violent!!! And a wave of revulsion and condemnation passes through the amphitheater for the strapped man.
Posted by: Maniza | Feb 13, 2006 4:48:25 AM
There is also another criterion by which we evaluate the whole episode. Many Muslim societies are deeply divided politically, obviously. This wave of cartoons, at least the second printings, was going to further mobilize and empower reactionary forces and demobilize progressive ones. I mention this because it's different from the picture of (small) extremists who resort to violence out of insult; instead it's about political consequences in real conflicts and strengthening the hands of the right wing in these societies.
Posted by: Robin | Feb 13, 2006 9:52:40 AM
I am deeply disappointed by this shallow and disingenuous analysis. You seek to extract sympathy and tap into American guilt complexes by drawing a completely inappropriate analogy with a fictional racist assault on down town New York blacks. The logic of the point is that, yes threatening to behead cartoonists, needlessly wasting the lives of a dozen fellow Muslims, organising economic boycotts against companies with no connection with the cartoons, intimidating Nordic aid workers into leaving Muslim countries and destroying Embassies is a little bit naughty. But it's an understandable overreaction because Muslims feel very attached to their prophet as centuries of cultural, economic and social stagnation have left them feeling inadequate and that's all they have left to feel a little self dignity.
Well it may be understandable in that it is a partial explanation, but it is not understandable in the sense of being a situation that anyone, Muslim or non Muslim should accept as desirable or appropriate.
The cartoon affair is a complex and multifaceted incident, which I don't think anyone has quite come to fully understand and appreciate yet. You ignored what for me are very intriguing aspects of the story. For example, what is the significance of the fact that the paper was Danish? In my view plenty. Would the reaction have been the same if the cartoons had been in an Israeli newspaper? If the Israelis had dared to suggest that the young fanatics that blow themselves up on a weekly basis in their buses and shopping malls might just possibly be in someway influenced by the teachings of Mohammed? Or had the cartons been published in some red neck back of the woods township in Texas? I think in these cases the cartoons would have been dismissed as inconsequential religious or racist propaganda and more or less ignored. However it was precisely because the Danes have a reputation for being so fair minded, reasonable and non racist that it has been necessary to react as though they were. As you say "And this is why they lash out so angrily against what is correctly perceived by them as a deliberate provocation and insult to their religion by their erstwhile colonizers and oppressors via crude and offensive caricature." As far as I can remember the only oppressing and colonising the Danes have been up to in the last 1,000 years has been in Greenland, a long way from the Muslim heartlands. Perhaps you are referring to the reprinting of the cartoons in those other well known oppressors and colonisers in Poland, Croatia, New Zealand etc? Well I guess you might say that they are all "westerners" but how about the Egyptians who reprinted the cartoons in a newspaper back in October with zero public outcry?
The fact is that these cartoons are so provocative, precisely because their intent was nothing to do with racism, but to provoke some questions that both the liberal west and almost all sections of the Muslim world have preferred to pretend don't need to be faced up to.
To my mind the key question was: Has Islam, through the threat of individualized terror been able to extend to the West, the beginnings of the restriction on freedom of speech it has for so long imposed through institutionalised terror in Muslim countries? We have had our answer.
Posted by: Wade | Feb 13, 2006 11:15:10 AM
Many interesting points! It's good to open the view of this issue to include more things like this.
My own problem with it all is regarding the separation of chuch and state. With Islamic states, which are more infused with religious laws, there is an easier avenue open not only for rioting mobs, but for the manipulation of those mobs.
Posted by: beajerry | Feb 13, 2006 12:05:35 PM
Thanks Abbas for an insightful treatment of a tough topic.
Posted by: Oshoma Momoh | Feb 13, 2006 12:49:41 PM
To a non-believer religion is a trivial thing, a consumer item, and similar to political opinion and party affiliation. To a believer it is a very different thing.
Knowledge brings responsibility.
Secular society in the minds of a lot its citizens places itself ahead of, beyond the superstition and hide-bound traditions of religion. But it doesn't seem to want to take on the responsibilities of superior knowing.
It competes directly, like a sibling. Like one football team against another.
"Our way is better." "No, our way is better."
Better for whom is the question.
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Maybe you could cite the writings where Le Carre and Dahl "suggest" Rushdie "got what was coming".
Because I doubt very much they said or intended to say anything of the sort.
Anymore than most of us who are trying to shed light on the deceptive and perniciously masked attempts to trick desperate people into fulfilling stereotypes of unthinking violence are suggesting the Danes and their embassies "had it coming".
There's more to this than ignorance versus intelligence, or one "civilization" versus another.
There's cynical manipulation and cowardice, there's false-hearted arrogance and outright lies, zealotry and bigotry all over the place - but there's very little compassion, and even less understanding.
Posted by: rollo | Feb 13, 2006 1:22:32 PM
We need to solve our problems. But the West is not taking any steps to help us solve it.
Posted by: Muslim Unity | Feb 13, 2006 2:40:20 PM
I think the analogy between a white supremacist rally in Harlem and the Danish cartoons is apt. The editors of the Danish newspaper say they commissioned the 12 cartoons in order to test the limits of free expression or the depth of self-censorship. In other words, their aim was to generate an outcry from the radical Muslim readers.
Why did they want to do that? I submit that they wanted what agent provocateurs always want--to create an inappropriate reaction that they can use against their enemies. I'm not saying the editors of the newspaper are hateful, but they were playing a nasty rhetorical game. Bait the crazy people you know are out there, then express shock and dismay when you get the response you were hoping for, then insinuate that the reaction is representative of the target group as a whole.
If the KKK tries to march in Harlem, you know why. They are hoping that someone will overreact so they can paint themselves as the victims.
Posted by: Lindsay Beyerstein | Feb 13, 2006 3:34:53 PM
Rollo,
This is Christopher Hitchens writing (did you think I was making it up?):
Among the strongest impulses of the intellectual class must be the itch for the "unpredictable"; the desire to say something different or unusual. When the Ayatollah Khomeini issued his fatwa against Salman Rushdie and "those responsible for the publication" of "The Satanic Verses" on Valentine's Day, 1989, he made the most frontal possible challenge to free expression. A large bounty, offered in public, for the solicitation of murder, by the theocratic leader of a nation, against an author in another country, for the offense of composing a work of fiction. This had no historic precedent.
Most writers rallied to the side of Rushdie and his publishers. But a number of them decided that it would be boring to say all the obvious things. Instead, they criticized Rushdie for offending against the tenets and emotions of a great religion. They implied that criticism of Islam was a Western, elitist, colonialist practice. They accused him of caring more for royalties than for human life and of insisting on a paperback edition rather than acting to calm the passions aroused by the hardback. And they said, darkly, that "he must have known what he was doing."
These were the positions of British writers Roald Dahl, John Berger, Paul Johnson, Hugh Trevor-Roper and John le Carré, among others. At the time, Rushdie was rather busy finding a place to stay, and didn't get around to replying to each in turn. But nor did he forget, as a recent rancorous correspondence in the Guardian of London has demonstrated.
More at http://www.salon.com/news/1997/12/04news.html
Both Le Carre and Dahl repeatedly published articles stating that they thought Rushdie knew exctly what he was doing, and at least implying, that he deserves whatever he gets. I don't have time to look them up, but Google being what it is, I am sure you could do so if you wanted.
I agree with much of what you say, by the way, and thank you for your comment.
Posted by: Abbas Raza | Feb 13, 2006 3:39:40 PM
It strikes me, on reading this, that all American's are imperialists, with the possible exception of the paleo-conservatives. Liberals most certainly are. American Liberalism is probably one of the greatest cultural imperialisms in world history. To the imperial American mind, everything must be seen throughout the prism of it's own history. if American whites feel guilty about blacks then so must the Danes, regardless of their own history. That history is expunged. Non-Americans are unter-menschen.
i write from Ireland and much of this horseshit reminds me of a loud boisterous American on an Irish train last year who was opining - loudly, of course, but that is the nature of Imperialism - that Ireland was not multi-cultural enough for her taste.
Having enough of this, I suggested - as loudly as I could - we were not that multicultural as we did not invade other peoples countries, enslave blacks, nor commit genocide. To loud guffaws.
This, too, if true of Denmark. Lets ignore the rest, shall we: ignore the ugly logic which compares criticism of a religious leader with racist abuse against a previously oppressed group in your country (not the world). As if, in any sane world this "They use the n-word, they call black people monkeys, they taunt them with reminders that their ancestors were slaves owned by the white people's own ancestors." has anything whatsoever to do with the Danish cartoons.
Count the differences. The Danes attacked a religious leader, not a race. It was a newspaper article, not a provocative taunting march. There were no reminders that their ancestors were slaves ( although I am sure that the Islamic imperialists could have taunted that, in reverse). In fact, no guilt that can be placed on the Danish heads with regards to reminders about anything. ( Except the vikings, for which I forgive them , so let's move on).
If you wanted to make this ridiculous religious-race analogy with more force you could have pointed to the vicious recent attacks on the religious leader of a confession that was subject to a visceral American hatred since before independence; a religion which is the most common religion of most modern migrants to the US, which has had the crosses burning in the deep south; and equal hostility from the heartlands, and urbane elites too: I speak of Catholicism.
Remember the election of the Pope , shall we? Did we see much holding back from the Liberals regarding that particular beloved leader, the representative of the God on Earth for the majority of the most recent migrants to the US. Not a bit of it. Just vile abuse, hate filled caricatures, and accusations of Naziism. Yet, despite the very real American anti-Catholic hatreds in the American past and present, it would be absurd to present attacks on the new Pope as equivalent to the harlem abuse recited above. Any conservative blogger to do so would be met with loud gales of laughter.
So, ignore all that, I said. Back to Denmark. Denmark is a powerless little country, in a relatively powerless union of nations. It may, or may not elect "right wing governments". That is it's business, not yours ( In fact it is ruled by a coalition, which is - by the nature of coalitions - much more wide ranging than any government the US has ever had).
It has a free press, and that press chose to attack a religious leader, as is it right. And in doing so this independent nation came under attack from two forms of imperialism. The imperialism of Islam, which demanded an immediate audience with it's Danish suzerainty and the imposition of sharia law re criticism of Mohammed, and the imperialism of American liberalism which suggested that the Danes feel guilt towards a people they had not have any historical dealings with.
Why? Because American whites had oppressed - in previous generations - a different people with darker skin, and since Americans had done so and now wallowed sanctimoniously in their "guilt" , the imperial "guilt" applies to all peoples of European descent. Even countries with no history of colonialism. Even presumably those europeans who suffered near genocide at the hands of the Ottoman empire. Even to countries - like my own - who were victims of internal European colonialism, of longer lasting and more vicious effect than the snippet of time that was european colonialism in the middle east.
The frankest thing i can say to American liberals is this: it is none of your business what the free nations of Europe print in their media. Leave imperialism to the Wilsonian democrats in the neo-conservative movement, retire to discussing your own way of life, and leave the rest of the world to it's devices. the rest of us are sick of y'all.
Posted by: eoin | Feb 13, 2006 4:55:30 PM
Eoin, you're attacking a straw man. Nobody is arguing for interference in the Danish press. Of course the newspaper should have been allowed to publish those cartoons. If the Danish government had tried to prevent the paper from doing so, or tried to punish its staffers after the fact, then it would deserve criticism (from Americans and otherwise).
Here's the analogy that Abbas is drawing: Publishing those cartoons was a deliberate attempt to provoke a disproportionate reaction. The paper knew that certain people are really touchy about disrespectful representations of Mohammed, especially by Western non-believers. So, they crreated a special feature to "test" that reaction. Sure enough, some people reacted disproportionately.
The question is whether we can understand why they got so angry. It turns out it's not so alien after all. We can see why people who already feel threatened may overreact to objectively small provocations.
Posted by: Lindsay Beyerstein | Feb 13, 2006 5:32:09 PM
Lindsay,
Yes, but the point that several of us are making is that the reaction was flamed by right-wing Islamic clerics who had as much of an interest in provoking outrage as the editors of the newspaper. Had these clerics not turned the cartoons to their own interest, the entire series of sad events would never had happened. So, the analogy is not at all perfect.
Posted by: Jonathan | Feb 13, 2006 5:51:56 PM
Jonathan, analogies rarely are (but as analogies go this one is pretty good).
Posted by: Anal-Haq | Feb 13, 2006 6:53:59 PM
Jonathan (and others),
Your point about analogy teetering when pressed is well taken, and born out by the various misunderstandings of the point I was trying to make. I wanted to urge people to think beyond the monomaniacal focus on free speech, as if that were the only issue involved. I am glad that you and Norm and Robin have congratulated yourselves once again on your commitment to free speech and not granting religion any special dispensation on this comment thread. Trust me, I am with you, as is Lindsay and everyone else. Congratulations to all of us. This is NOT the point. The point of the analogy was mainly to bring out one thing: there can be a difference between condoning acts of irrational rage and trying to understanding their causes. Why does it seem to you that I am defending the people who are burning embassies? I am not. I am asking for acknowledgment that Muslim societies have been historically wronged in many ways by the West, and that there continue to be massively assymetrical power relations between the two, and that current policies of the West toward Islamic lands are unfair. These include, but are by no means limited to: the one-sided support of Israel, the arming and encouraging of Saddam Hussein so he could attack Iran, the propping up of dictatorships and horribly repressive (where's the concern for free speech here) unpopular governments in Islamic countries for the sake of stability and an uninterrupted supply of oil, the reneging on all pledges to help reconstruct Afghanistan after the removal of the Taliban, etc., etc., etc., etc. All this makes Muslims the world over mad. And while it does not excuse violent behavior, there is no harm in trying to understand what we are doing that is making them so angry that they erupt into violent rage, just as the Rodney King riots caused us to carefully examine the issue of police brutality.
The point of my analogy was to say that in certain cases, especially ones that involve a disadvantaged and unfairly treated and relatively powerless group, it is our duty to examine why they are behaving with an uncontrollable rage.
The analogy was never meant to be perfect (and obviously no analogy is, otherwise it would be identity not analogy) and my article was not meant to be the "more reasoned mode of argument" that you encourage me to employ. I am trying to encourage understanding of a very different way of thinking, religious sensibility of a kind different than that found in the West, by trying to make an intuitively and emotionally powerful argument, and suggesting that digging in your heels about free speech (something no one is arguing with you about here, especially me) is not a particularly useful reaction.
Answer this question directly: if the NY Times published a cartoon showing Martin Luther King, Jr. performing a sexual act with a pig, and they received death threats, would the first thing that comes to your mind be, "Well, they have a right to do that"?
One other thing. Just trust me on this because I have grown up in a Muslim society: to keep saying that these crowds don't represent the real feelings of most Muslims and that they are being manipulated by their leaders is simply wrong. They do. Like it or not, common Muslims everywhere can and will be driven to rage by insults to Mohammad. I wish it were otherwise, but this is the reality of the world and we need to deal with it responsibly, not with further provocation to an already unfairly treated group.
At least make a charitable attempt to understand my point and then argue with it before trying to find rhetorical weaknesses in my argument. Thanks again for all the comments.
Posted by: Abbas Raza | Feb 13, 2006 7:00:06 PM
Before I am quickly misinterpreted again, let me just say that when I wrote that "digging in your heels about free speech is not a particularly useful reaction", I did not mean that we should give an inch on free speech. I am as much of a free speech fundamentalist as the next person. What I am saying is that we already recognize that while we must support the principle of free speech always, we must and do make allowances to reality: to beat this example to death, I would not encourage someone to exercise their free speech rights by yelling anti-black slurs in the middle of Harlem. Is this a perfect situation? No, in a perfect situation, the person would be free and safe in doing so. Unfortunately, this is the real world, and welcome to it.
Posted by: Abbas Raza | Feb 13, 2006 7:08:43 PM
The point of my analogy was to say that in certain cases, especially ones that involve a disadvantaged and unfairly treated and relatively powerless group, it is our duty to examine why they are behaving with an uncontrollable rage.
I agree with this, but at the same time, shouldn't our decision whether or not to condemn the paper that published the cartoons depend on how we read their motives? The fact that these cartoons were published in a right-wing paper that is known for being hostile towards Muslim immigrants makes me inclined to condemn them (although not most of the cartoonists, several of whom said they felt boxed into a corner by the paper's request for cartoons), but consider another analogy. Suppose an atheist cartoonist were to draw a picture of Charles Darwin slicing the heads off of Abraham, Jesus, and Muhammed, and it led to a similar outcry in the Muslim community (and perhaps also the Jewish and Christian communities)--in this case too I would agree that we should try to understand the perspective of the Muslims who were angered by the cartoon and not simply demonize them as enemies of free speech, but at the same time I would largely agree with the cartoon's message (that modern science is destructive towards all traditional religious beliefs, and that this is a good thing), so I would have a hard time condemning the cartoonist or the paper that published it. The way I feel about the actual Muhammed cartoons is somewhere between this hypothetical and your own hypothetical of the blatantly racist cartoons.
Posted by: Jesse M. | Feb 13, 2006 7:47:55 PM
Abbas, my friend:
I agree entirely with your list of grievances against the United States, and with your point that we should try to understand the basis for the rage felt by those in rioting and marching in the street. My point in questioning your analogy was, however, not simply rhetorical. It was to suggest that the analogy left out the role played by right wing clerics and autocrats in disseminating the cartoons and fomenting this rage. Your analogy was emotionally moving precisely because it misrepresented the way in which the offensive images were actually received by those who were offended. This is not to excuse the actions of the Newspaper (protected by free speech as it might be), or of course to ignore the overall context of US hegemony.
Posted by: Jonathan | Feb 13, 2006 10:24:32 PM
Eoin, if you think rich European countries have nothing to do with what's going on in the Middle East, that they have not benefitted handsomely from the oil-soaked policies of Western powers towards that region, you're being childishly and annoyingly ignorant. At the very least, you're not nearly as clever as you seem to think you are.
Posted by: setare | Feb 14, 2006 2:47:25 AM
Abbas-
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0489/8904012.htmThanks, and thanks still more one and all for the continuing expansion and depth of the 3quarks endeavor. That piece by Michael Blim evokes the New Yorker of my youth. And Jane Renaud as well. This is very satisfying.
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The Dahl quote:
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The essential statement is that Rushdie knew what he was doing. The spin is leaving that out and having Dahl say "he had it coming". The nuance is someone doing something, whether it's an act of free speech or not, and being fairly certain of the outcome. Hitchens tries to spin it with "darkly" but there's nothing dark about it.
Passive-aggressive manipulation isn't some exotic strategy, it's very common. Goading someone until they explode and then pointing at them and shrieking how insane they are - it's part of the arsenal.
Hiding that strategy behind the veil of "free speech" isn't going to work either.
Lighting a match in a room three feet deep in spilled gasoline isn't okay just because the gasoline has no business being there.
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Le Carré :http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/crime/story/0,6000,1100464,00.html
-http://thecanadianencyclopedia.com/
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Rushdie's "impatience" is pretty telling there.
Le Carré may be a pompous jerk in person - I don't know, I've never met him - but it seems unlikely, he certainly doesn't write like one, nor does he write like a snotty adolescent with an attitude of privileged entitlement.
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John Berger is the most profoundly compassionate writer I've ever read.
Christopher Hitchens is not.
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Hitchens in the Salon piece:This is froth, intentionally misleading and deceptive, Hitchens writes to create an impression of veracity where there is no truth. He paints minds with more integrity and depth than his or Rushdie's as obstinate schoolboys acting like a gang. He's making it up, photoshopping it out of bits and pieces of the real.
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What gets left out of the polarized spin is that it's possible to condemn an irresponsible act without condoning the reaction to it, or advocating its suppression.
It gets left out because it's true, it's what's happening, and even unsophisticated minds can recognize the truth - when they're allowed to see it.
Posted by: rollo | Feb 14, 2006 3:30:55 AM
Right back to you Wade: I am deeply disappointed by this shallow and disingenuous analysis. To my mind the key question is: Has the Western media, through its exaggerated reports and images of individualized violence (generalized as congenital tendencies of whole populations) been able to extend in the West, the beginnings of the restriction on freedoms including of speech which Western empires and their extensions have for so long imposed through institutionalized terror in Muslim countries? We have had our answer.
Posted by: Maniza | Feb 14, 2006 4:52:17 AM
Rollo,
He's making it up, photoshopping it out of bits and pieces of the real.
Maybe. But I do recall Eqbal Ahmad, Bhasker Vashee and some others from the old Tamara Deustcher crowd, of which Berger used be a part, telling Berger that he should reconsider his comments at the time.
But, yes, Berger is compassionate writer and a very thoughtful person.
Certainly Le Carre and Dahl would insist that they deplore the persecution of Rushide but at the same time chastise Rushdie.
Lots of people said that the response was unsurprising, perhaps even predictable. Rumor has it that Eqbal Ahmad warned him before the SV came out that Khomeini would respond this way. But there was acrimony in Le Carre's exchanges with Rushdie, at least those in the Guardian that I recall.
I've always had my problems with Hitchens, but the account he gives of the Rushdie affair seems much less of a representation forged by ill-will than his usual servings. Well, with the exception of "They implied that criticism of Islam was a Western, elitist, colonialist practice," which was, as you call it, photoshopping.
Posted by: Robin | Feb 14, 2006 11:19:13 AM
What a party.
Posted by: Johnanon | Feb 14, 2006 8:01:57 PM
Your Rodney King analogy fails to factor in the fact that white people in the states were (and still are in some respects) reluctant to talk to their black friends about race--much more so than non-Muslims in the West are able to talk to their Muslim friends about Islam.
Posted by: aegean disclosure | Feb 15, 2006 8:45:09 AM
Also with respect to those riots you say of non-blacks:
"...Because while they do not give sanction to criminal and violent acts of looting and vandalism, they can understand how a collection of historically oppressed people can be driven to irrational rage by repeated acts of injustice and caricature."
There is something off a little here. The idea that the understanding came from the knowledge of previous grievances may be put under strain by this observation: that the specific instance of the Rodney King beating was offensive to non-blacks as well and punishable by law. That I think has more to do with where the understanding came from. This is not the case in the cartoon riots, and I would also be as bold as to suggest that had riots on this scale occured in the Abu Ghraib scandal alone, less people would come up to you and ask what's wrong with Islam.
Posted by: aegean disclosure | Feb 15, 2006 9:04:59 AM
I have a couple of comments here. I think it is pretty clear that the Danish newspaper probably didn't have totally clear motives in what it did, and that Muslim anger at the cartoons is somewhat understandable.
But I do think you, Abbas, are tipping over into Muslim self-pity a bit too much here. After all, it's not like there has just been a one-way street of Western oppression of Muslims since the beginning of time. There was a period when Muslims were the aggressors, invading Christian lands and conquering them. All those Hindu temples in North India didn't raze themselves. The Ottomans definitely made a practice of inhibiting Christians in their domains (devshirme, special tax, etc.), and some of those laws persist to this day in Turkey, like the fact that Orthodox Christians still aren't allowed to reopen some of their seminaries. In Egypt, the law forbids new construction of Christian churches. In Pakistan, accusations of blasphemy are a time-honored tactic for taking your non-Muslim's neighbors lands and possessions and possibly his life in the bargain. In Malaysia, the government can spontaneously decide you are a Muslim after your death and prevent your family from burying you according to their religious rites, if they decide you are famous enough and want to claim you for the nation. We haven't even started on the treatment of non-Muslims in the Gulf region and especially in Saudi Arabia.
So Muslims are both oppressed and oppressor. There's no way it could conceivably be otherwise, since we are talking about a great world religion and a lot of countries. So don't expect much sympathy from non-Muslims if one consistently plays the victim card for Muslims.
After all, if we accept that Egyptians are oppressed by the government and the West, then Egyptian Christians are doubly oppressed, by their government, the West, and their Muslim neighbors.
Posted by: Hektor Bim | Feb 15, 2006 11:38:34 AM
Parts of this exchange remind me of a line from Dostoevsky: (something like) "In the name of the European Enlightenment all these people must be destroyed".
Posted by: Siddiq | Feb 15, 2006 5:51:23 PM
Wow, keep up the good work.
Andrew of Arabia is also good for some lighter fare every now and then.
Posted by: Jonas W. | Feb 15, 2006 9:35:37 PM
"And until Saudi Arabia allows non-Muslims to promote their faiths openly in Mecca, then I really have trouble listening to Muslim complaints that they are being treated unfairly."
I have little time for complaints from muslims about how badly they are treated. It seems to me to be a one way street. For example - as a non-muslim, I cannot even visit Mecca. Christians (I am an atheist) do not have equal rights in muslim countries. I would HATE to be a christian in Pakistan. But I am sure that you know all this.
I know little of the colonial difficulties that muslim countries have had - so let us focus on current problems. Oil is a big one. I have heard that western countries are "raping" muslim countries for oil. Surely we discover it, process it, and then pay through the nose for it? I pay a lot down at my local petrol station, I know that. I understand that OPEC even sets the price that we pay. What could be fairer than that? How is that "raping" muslim countries? Where does this money go to?
I fully agree that the USA has dealt shamefully with the Kurds after the 1st Gulf war. I did not know that they had done the same in Afghanistan. But I believe you. I am no fan of the USA. I am Australian. One for the muslim side.
I think that if the muslims want to be treated "fairly", then they need to grow up. The World is not a fair place. The USA does not even treat US fairly, and we are their closest allies. The USA looks out for itself - as every country does. Too bad if that seems a bit unfair - get used to it.
I often wonder why muslim countries are so poor. Those with oil should be richer than us! Those with-out I can understand. This is probably the crux of the whole thing - if people are rich enough, they do not need religeon. And they do not need to be offended by cartoons or anything else. I have found that countries that are slowly "over-run" by muslims, become poorer. For example, look at the southern Philippines (Mindanao) and southern Thailand. Only two examples, but worth pondering.
Can anyone explain to me why countries floating on oil are still living in the 14th century?
Posted by: Kerry | Feb 15, 2006 11:25:24 PM
Caucasian reactionaries in da house. Enlightenment zindabad!
Posted by: Anal_Haq | Feb 16, 2006 5:13:17 AM
I also think that a lot of the anger manifesting in these protests comes because people have rising expectations or dreams of past glory.
Who is protesting most vigorously here? Syria, Lebanon, and Pakistan. What do the people in those states have in common? It has to be dashed expectations. Syria presents itself as the beating heart of the Arab world and the seat of power of the historical caliphate. Syrians are fed a steady diet of tales of past Arab prowess and conquest. But all Syrians know that the present government is corrupt and driving the country into the ground. It's the humiliation of it. Something similar is going on I believe in Lebanon.
Pakistan is different, but only in kind. After all, Pakistan is an artificial nation, created to be the "land of the pure" to get away from all of the disorder and diversity of India and have a homeland for the Muslims. But it hasn't worked out well at all. Pakistan has been run in the main by incompetent, corrupt leaders who insist on starting wars with their bigger neighbor. Trying to keep a hold on East Bengal only meant a million deaths and total defeat, leading to the creation of Bangladesh. There isn't much to be excited about in the future either. That's why so many people support nuclear first-strikes in Pakistan - they want to destroy everything and start over from scratch. It's the humiliation - after all, most people expected Pakistan to do better than India after partition, rather than the reverse.
I think that is a powerful ingredient in what is going on. Muslims think of their religion and culture as being superior, but there is inevitable cognitive dissonance when most (though obviously not all) Muslim-majority countries are corrupt, poor places where human life is not valued and governments are indifferent to their populations. That's why the protests in Pakistan are so much more virulent than Malaysia.
It is precisely because Muslims have an idea of how far in power and culture and influence they have fallen that they react so virulently to these kinds of things.
I have no idea how to deal with that kind of humiliation, especially since it frequently seems to manifest in oppression of non-Muslim minorities.
Posted by: Hektor Bim | Feb 16, 2006 10:08:34 AM
Hector I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head.Unfortunately the diagnosis is easier than the treatment.Salman Rushdie foresaw the problem and more acutely than a non-Muslim ever could.I suspect that Muslims in India and southeast Asia will play a bigger role in reconciling the modern sacriligious outlook with the requirements of Islamic piety.Specially given their geographic and historical distance from the West as well as the multireligious character of ther societies,or at least one hopes so,Sumant
Posted by: sumant | Feb 16, 2006 6:36:55 PM
I'm afraid that either Bim's obtuse or an idiot.
Bim in his pointless tirade mentions Syria and Lebanon but doesn't mention Turkey, a democracy, because if he did his argument wouldn't make much sense. Bim knows the largest demonstrations took in Turkey. An estimated 60,000 took to the streets. By the way, a couple of bombs also exploded in Turkey yesterday.
Bim reserves his ire for Pakistan (which apparently gets my friend Sumant very excited) a country about as artificial Belgium, Switzerland, and Austria, and just about any country that has enjoyed colonialism. Bim knows that no Pakistani supports first strikes and its nuclear program began after India decided to test the bomb in the early 70's and then again in the late 90's.
I have no idea how to deal with people like Bim. Bim is dim.
Posted by: Anal-Haq | Feb 17, 2006 4:15:57 AM
Anal-Haq,
Of course Belgium is an artificial country, and in fact, it may break up. I don't know how anyone who read the history of Belgium could think differently. All countries are in some sense artificial, but Pakistan is relatively unique in its founding being so recent. India also is somewhat artificial in this sense. Switzerland has a very long pedigree as a country, even if its founding was not so dissimilar in some ways to Pakistan's.
In fact, Anal-Haq, I don't know that no Pakistani supports first strike capability. Why are nuclear weapons so prominent in Pakistani political discourse then? Why are mockups of nuclear weapons paraded as monuments in town squares? Why do so many prominent people have paintings of nuclear missiles heading off to India? You should get out more - there are a surprising number of people who believe a nuclear first strike is a good idea for Pakistan.
Posted by: Hektor Bim | Feb 17, 2006 9:45:41 AM
Bim, buddy, you're joking, right? Is this Bimian humor?
Let me just remind you that Abbas' post is about Danish cartoons. So get with the subject and pop a Prozac or something.
You're a funny guy though, Hector Bim, a little strident, but definitely funny.
Posted by: Anal-Haq | Feb 18, 2006 7:02:40 AM
Yes, its true. We Pakistanis are always hanging pictures of the bomb in our houses. If theres an empty wall mother always says 'where is that picture of the bomb? Hang it here please.' At tea time father says 'so what news of the bomb today? You want to first strike or second strike?'
I can coroborate these facts only.
Posted by: timur | Feb 18, 2006 7:10:39 AM
To the many individuals who mentioned freedom of speech, lets remember freedom comes to a halt when you invade someone or a group of people's freedom.
Posted by: Summayah | Feb 19, 2006 4:34:23 AM
it's one thing to be a moslem in the u.s. writing editorials about your "version" of islam from a comfy chair in some comfy office, and another being a christian on the streets of indonesia and seeing firsthand islamic "reality".
let me remind you of mass rapes in 1998 by moslems in the capital [jakarta]. how about genocide of ethnic chinese throughout the decades?
how about mass destruction and looting of entertainment facilities every year in the name of the fasting month [ramadhan]? or the egotistical, testoterone induced mentality that leads to garbs [jilbab] that women have to suffer everyday?
take a walk in my shoes then write your bs editorial.
it's about time the world recognized islam as is. i don't say anything about hinduist or buddhist, because i don't see them blowing up people in the name of religion.
islam is just as the cartoon depicts: terrorism waiting to happen. if not, explain to me why an indonesian can blow himself up and a few hundred of his fellow countrymen in the hopes of killing a handful of "westerners" in the process? says a lot about the largest moslem country in the world, and the islam community, doesn't it?
i think anybody who's travelled between christian and moslem countries know that moslem minorities are treated with a lot of respect in christian countries and not vice-versa.
so please, spare me the islamic minority sob story.
Posted by: indonesian christian | Feb 21, 2006 3:30:08 PM
Dear Indonesian Christian,
Though you choose to make your point with inflammatory bluster, you have good reason to be angry. Indeed, minorities are treated terribly in many Muslim countries, and this is should be a source of shame for us.
Labeling all Muslims terrorists in return doesn't really help anything, though.
Posted by: Abbas Raza | Feb 21, 2006 4:08:03 PM
Click here for an Inisghtful analysis of what makes this epoch such a turbulent and insane era on this planet.
Posted by: Sue Wong | Feb 22, 2006 2:20:21 AM
the cartoon against great prophet is totally madness.he came in this world for peace.may god hedayet(to know itswrong)the cartoonist.
Posted by: dr.Zahir | Feb 24, 2006 10:41:34 AM
Edward Miller
Special To The Jewish Week
After the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten’s 12 caricatures of the prophet Muhammad were republished in European newspapers, riots erupted in Damascus, Gaza, Beirut and elsewhere throughout the Muslim world. The violence is an extreme manifestation of the deep hurt felt by virtually all Muslims.
As we condemn the violence on the streets, perhaps we should take a moment to understand the hurt in the hearts of the great majority of Muslims who did not engage in violence.
For Muslims, the mere rendering of an image of Muhammad is sacrilege. The portrayal of Muhammad in a pejorative fashion is to them an inconceivably offensive desecration, on the level of what would be for us the defilement of a Torah scroll. Because it was done in newspapers across Europe, it was a slap in the face repeated thousands of times.
Perhaps it’s a question of respect, not freedom. Freedom of expression theoretically protects the right of a non-Jew to desecrate a Torah scroll. Yet we would all view freedom of expression as a hollow defense to such a vile act.
Some say Muslims can’t take criticism and simply don’t understand freedom of the press. In my own limited experience, that has not been the case. For the past year I’ve written a column in a Muslim newspaper, Muslims Weekly, in which I’ve criticized suicide bombing, the treatment of Jews under Islamic rule, the anti-Jewish rantings of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and even Muslims Weekly’s own reporting about Israel. But it was all done with respect, an informed appreciation of the wonderful benefits that Islam conferred upon the Jewish people, along with a willingness to look at our own imperfections together with those of the other.
Regardless of whether or not the European press was constitutionally free to publish the offensive images, the act was a blatant and vulgar act of disrespect to Islam. Such insults no doubt contribute to the frightening specter of a clash of civilizations.
What can we do as Jews to lessen the hostilities? Perhaps, just perhaps, a little respect would help. Rather than ripping the wounds wider with editorial musings extolling freedom of speech and condemning violent protests, is it not time for a bit of healing?
The pages of this Jewish newspaper present a place for a small start by showing Muslims right here that though we too have the freedom to say anything we like, we choose to convey respect to our Muslim cousins. Printing something positive about Muhammad best does this.
There is a space between romanticizing the past and vilifying it. There is a time to focus on the dark side of history and a time to view the other in the best light. There is a time to cull from our rabbinic writings the good our sages saw in Islam and there is quite a bit of such sentiment recorded. We Jews need to learn to be more flexible, pursuing the claims of Jews expelled from Arab countries and criticizing anti-Jewish TV programs and cartoons in the Muslim media, while at the same time displaying gratitude for all the good Islam did for us. There is a time to jump over our pain and see the humanity of the other. That time is now. Let us start:
There is a Hadith (oral tradition concerning the words and works of Muhammad) recorded by Bukhari in the name of Amer Bin Rabiha that reads as follows:
“A funeral procession passed us and the Prophet stood up for it. We said, ‘but Prophet of God, this is a funeral of a Jew.’ The Prophet responded, ‘rise.’ ”
One can search the writings of the ancient non-Jewish world for a more powerful example of a public display of respect for the humanity of the Jew. There simply is no more powerful statement than the single word uttered by Muhammad nearly 14 centuries ago.
Some readers will bombard this newspaper with reams of material showing a darker side to Islam, as if it were just too much for them to hear one good thing. But it is there, it is a sacred part of their tradition, it is good and we should hear it and respect it.
When you give respect you get it. When you take criticism, you earn the right to give it. Perhaps this article will be republished in Muslim newspapers, compete with its critical comments about the pain we feel in the face of anti-Jewish cartoons and worse in Muslim media. Muslim readers may come to understand that an article by a Jew, in a Jewish newspaper, was one of respect, telling its audience: “We know that the one mocked in newspapers in Europe is the one who had the humanity to tell his companions to rise for the funeral procession of a Jew.”
Edward Miller, a local attorney, is active in efforts to reconcile Jews and Muslims.
**You all are wondering how can one be a Muslim and a Jew at the same time. Well to straighten that wonderful thought a Jew doesn't necessarly have to follow the Jewish faith. Jews by nature are the descendents of Jacob (Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him). I chose my faith to be Islam whilst makes me a Muslim alhamdulillah!**
Posted by: Jewish Muslim | Feb 24, 2006 5:20:43 PM
founders of jews and christianity are beloved Prophet of Islam. So muslims cant make cartoon to take revange.
Posted by: sazia | Feb 25, 2006 6:33:38 AM
Sorry Abbas--I had to post this on whatever references I could find to the cartoons back in February 2006. Sorreeee!
July 20, 2007: BBC "Spain's High Court has ordered the seizure of all copies of a magazine that carried a cartoon of Crown Prince Felipe and his wife having sex."
No doubt these will be reproduced all over the "Free" world's media--those neutral defenders of freedom of speech?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/europe/6909047.stm >
Posted by: maniza | Jul 23, 2007 10:20:26 AM
what it boils down to, IMO:
1)distorted humans had the ridiculous idea of relgiion. everything that comes as a result of religion, then, is also ridiculous.
2) we can say what we want, but in order to have a harmonious existence, we must RESPECT.
Posted by: raf | Mar 30, 2008 1:38:06 AM
Once again, Abbas, thanks for this timeless, outstanding post. And once again, consider yourself reblogged.
Posted by: John Ballard | Sep 13, 2012 7:15:53 AM
Brabrabravovovovo!!!! Abbas, you are sooo good at hitting nails on heads! I'm so glad you are out there pounding away, patiently remodeling.
Posted by: Christopher Holvenstot | Sep 13, 2012 7:56:17 AM
Can't believe I didn't see this one at the time of first posting. Outstanding. Thank you.
Posted by: howl of minerva | Sep 13, 2012 5:59:42 PM
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